Religion & Beliefs Thread views: 1036
CarolynZ
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08/17/03 07:41 PM


cloning, in the Bible
Post: #67646
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Was reading John 6 today, and its the story of Jesus feeding the 5000 with five loaves and two fish. The only way that he could have done this and have had enough scraps left over to fill twelve baskets, is if the fish and loaves were cloned. This was manifested because the need was genuine, so God made this miracle possible.

Ok, some people (Christians) say cloning is against God or acting like God. But, if the need is geniune and the cloned animals,stem cells, organs are used to save lives as Jesus saved the people from starvation, then God will allow this miracle to be possible. God has allowed for it to manifest. There is alos a story of a man with 100 loaves feeding 400 soldiers, but I have to look up where that one is. Love,Carolyn

I will not leave you as orphans; I will always come to you. - Jesus


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Angel_fire
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08/18/03 04:11 AM


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Re: cloning, in the Bible
Post: #67653 / Re: CarolynZ #67646
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Wow Carolyn, this is a really good point you made hun.



Angel

When The Time Is Right.....



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Ven
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08/18/03 08:14 AM


Re: cloning, in the Bible
Post: #67668 / Re: Angel_fire #67653
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OOOOOOOO! Thats sweetnessss! Thanks for sharing hon The power of faith moves mountains, huh? For anything to work, there must be faith, and it all happens for the highest good

With regard to the science stuff- and the anti-christ using puters to track us all down or something, I believe the anti-christ is just our ego Doreen Virtue stated this [the anti-christ being our ego], in her book "The Lightworker's Way", and I totally agree with her- it has opened my eyes

Thanks again for sharing Do take care! All the best Love and light to you and yours!

Best Regards
Venkat




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The8thAngel
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08/18/03 08:22 AM


Re: cloning, in the Bible
Post: #67671 / Re: CarolynZ #67646
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I agree
very good point Carolyn!
There are so many people these days that try to "speak on behalf" of our Creator (one in particular being our "fearless" leader lol), that we lose sight of the fact that these are human lives at stake.

.......there is no spoon.


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Daje
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08/18/03 08:40 AM


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Re: cloning, in the Bible
Post: #67676 / Re: Ven #67668
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Hi Ven,
oh that's great. I have just bought the book today ("The Lightworker's Way")...I'll be even more anxious to read it.

By the way I've read something similar in James Redfield's "The Tenth Insight". He says 'It's only human fear that creates bizarre behaviours (e.g. being egoistic) amoung people to get rid of fear.'

Love and Light
Stefanie




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Cecilia
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08/20/03 07:17 PM


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Re: cloning, in the Bible
Post: #67809 / Re: CarolynZ #67646
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The needs of the many out weight the needs of the few.

I dont think the bible intended to make us believe our own carnial thoughts on this passage. Jesus supplied a need to fill the hunger ..... Cloning of people, cats, etc etc ... is not to fill a need of hunger, its human nature that brings out the need for humans to experiment, and play god. I myself would not like to see my children running around in two or three. They would not be my children that I loved that I have birth to, that I raised that I took care of. They would be brought fourth by man who wanted to test his theories and create a new human race.

I Cant see human cloning or any other type of cloning for the flesh as actually working. We were not meant to be god or play god, Sodam and Gomorrah learned that lesson the hardway.

Genesis 19
24Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;
25 And he overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon the ground

I am not a Christian, I was raised in that belief, I do believe there is a God/Goddes out there, but IMO cloning is acting like you are one of the Gods. Taking into your own hands and creating from your own will not the will of others. Myabe to help science move a step forward, thats fine, I have no problems with any of that, but I will not pick and choose from the bible and read it to fit my meaning, or someone elses meaning. I read it in conjunction with the previous passages and take the full meaning into consideration. Taken out of context loses the meaning, and creates what we want to believe.

This is just my opinion, I dont agree with cloning ... sorry thats just me.

"Friends are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly."


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Puck
Member
08/21/03 05:26 AM


Re: cloning, in the Bible
Post: #67815 / Re: CarolynZ #67646
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"The only way that he could have done this and have had enough scraps left over to fill twelve baskets, is if the fish and loaves were cloned. This was manifested because the need was genuine, so God made this miracle possible"

Is this feeding the 5000 you quote seriously advocating your pro-cloning views because I totally disagree with the whole concept and the reasoning that you feel cloning is acceptable because one verse has been taken out of context to the many verses dealing with this and made to fit something not intended.

Now, I am not "bible bashing" but this is one miracle I do feel has been greatly mistranslated and taken out of context. Firstly the written accounts were in both Hebrew and Greek. Interestingly the translation to "basket" is a small wicker basket or alternatively a small lunch box (depending on which language you have translated) so immediately the 12 baskets become considerably smaller to the minds eye.

Now taking this further, this happened just before the Jewish Passover when the custom was to take a loaf of bread and break off a small portion, passing the bread to the next who broke off a piece and passed it on. So what happens when faced with feeding 5000? - break the bread into breadcrumbs and pass a crumb to each - the intended point was made, a very symbolic point that in "multiplying" the bread and fish was announcing the coming of the messiah.......consider the bread which is called aphiqomon (meaning the coming one).....now take the twelve baskets/small wicker containers/lunchboxes and the twelve is symbolic too. Mark and Matthew wrote about two feedings so you have five baskets used in one feeding and seven in the other - twelve leftover baskets represent the tribes of Israel, the seven left over baskets in the second feeding represent the non-Hebrew nations. So the whole message was for the Jewish and Gentile tribes who all probably received one small breadcrumb, but importantly and very symbolically they were all "fed". We just assume in our minds something far out of proportion. The "need" was seen and met, so what on earth does one verse picked out from many have to do with thoughts that the only way to have done this was by cloning?

"Ok, some people (Christians) say cloning is against God or acting like God. But, if the need is geniune and the cloned animals,stem cells, organs are used to save lives as Jesus saved the people from starvation, then God will allow this miracle to be possible. God has allowed for it to manifest."

Now, onto cloning. Cloning of what? In Genesis God entrusts us with dominion over animals but there is no reference anywhere that entrusts us to have dominion over other human beings. DNA is needed at the very beginning of an egg's fertilisation and you only have part of the DNA in laboratory fertilisation. Besides from the onset an embryo is a life and most of these embryos have been destroyed before they have produced stem cells - the whole point of cloning.Therefore it's abortion and this goes against the bible too (exodus 20:13) Now a human clone can never have both parents and this also conflicts with the bibles teachings. We are in such an unholy race to bring synthetic life into this world to use for transplants and extracted cells that we overlook the fact that non embryonic stem cells have had proven laboratory successes and require no cloning or loss of life. Cells are in fat, brain cells, umbilical cord blood, pancreas etc., so there is nothing from feeding the 5000 that make me feel the bible is giving us an unconditional open door or any permission or reference to cloning at all and I disagree with cloning totally.

If you start to speak from your heart, spirit will come



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Tom
Member
08/22/03 06:16 AM


Re: cloning, in the Bible
Post: #67863 / Re: CarolynZ #67646
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Personally, I don't think that's the way it went.
At the level of Sananda's conciousness, he is able to manifest any material reality with a single thought. Whenever a soul is completely liberated from the karma of the three body's, Physical, Astral, Causal a person has obtained the ultimate freedom.

Souls at the causal realize that everything is just an idea. A thought. All things exist out of the tought-texture of the godmind. These beings are able to create whole universes by just a singe thought. For that is all there is. An idea in the mind-space of god. God is a level, god is an infinity of potentionals and conciousness.

I find it very difficult to believe that god manifested that miracle 'in person'. (In some sense it can be viewed as god) but I personally think it was solely the individual aspect of god, in this case jesus, who manifestated material reality.

As I am writing here on this keyboard, it was god who made that possible ofcourse. But I am doing it.

I, the cosmic sea
Watch the little ego float in me

-Paramahansa Yogananda


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