Religion & Beliefs Thread views: 904
10/10/01 05:58 AM

Sept.11 USA Incident and Religions
Post: #22600
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I just came back from Europe for vacation. And in the midst of my vacation came the Sept.11th incident.

The countries I toured during this vacation include Ireland, UK (London and Manchester), Netherland (Amsterdam), Germany (Frankfurt, Munich, Heidelbery), Austria (Innsbruck), Switzerland (Lucern and Mt. Titlus), Belgium (Brussel), Italy (Venice, Vatican, Rome) and Greece (Athen and Island of Santorini) and France.

The vacation itself has been wonderful and I get to talked to many Europeans from these countries. Naturally, everyone talked about the New York Sept.11th incident.

What is interesting is ALL (100%) the Europeans I met on buses, trains, planes, ships shared EXACTLY the SAME opinion on this matter. Their comment was 'I have deep sympathy for the victimes individually, but I still think the Americanos caused all of these themselves.' And they talked about the self-rightousness of Americanos too.

And I have a deep suspicion that this 'I am right and you are wrong' mentality has its roots in America's predominant religion - Christianity. If Christians think orange juice is the ONLY healthy drink, they would try to coerce / convert the entire world's population to drink orange juice only. It is this type of aggressive marketing and selling attitude that all the Europeans I came across find unsettling. THE KEY word here is ONLY. And Christians I met often exhibit this biblical god's attribute, 'our God is the ONLY true god'. Don't you see how arrogant the statement is ? And the lesson came on Sept.11th, 2001.

Anyway, I was in the Vatican, I met an Austrian industrial chemist who pointed out religion in Europe has been in decline and many American christians are fundamentalists (to me, that word is only an hairline from fanatics) and the word makes me cringe now.

Holy War ? What is so HOLY about revenge if they are the ones that cause 80% of the pains and agonies of the people of Afghanistan in the first place ?

Hasn't the world have enough of these 'holy war' dogma ? When I saw Bush's cowboy style speech and movement in the hotel TV and calling it a holy war (probably a result of some image consultants behind the scene), I lamented at his mentality. I just hope that he is not truly representative of the American public.

What have religions done to humankind ?


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10/10/01 03:00 PM

Re: Sept.11 USA Incident and Religions
Post: #22615 / Re: gkmail #22600
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Dear gkmail,

About "but I still think the Americans caused all of these themselves"........

The problems is that is not about "americans" or any other country. Its about ALL US. Its about projection of our own fears into our life, its about not being true to what we really are, its about forgetting the love and going on the way of fear...

Its a battle of everyone with himself, its a time when you can look deep inside you and meet your "shade mask", when you can deal and fight with your own fear and your dark side.

And its also about UNITY...
About finally stop to think US and THEM...Its about being united and to understand that we are no more than a small sparkles from the big creation that having a same roots and sharing the same planet.

And its about time to do things TOGETHER without judging each other, but with understanding that each of us having a purpose.

And here is a small message that I've got once from my still speak voliumes to me.


And you started your way with no attachement,
And you used your power with no understanding.
And you made promises without being sure about them,
And you started to feel that all your life just lost in the whole Universe.
And you started to doubt my words,
And forget my sayings.
And to walk on the way with no compassion...
And you stopped one day and looked back and asked:
"Where am I in all this? And where is the end of my way?"
But you didn't hear the answer
Because you wasn't listening.
And in this moment the light came to your thoughts,
With understanding about the Universe.
The circle is coming back to the same point
Exactly where it started.
Creation born from creation, vibration born from vibration,
And there is no "end" or "start" to things.
And in sadness you understood the joy
And in madness you became relaxed.
And in all the ways you were going with no attachement
Because you wanted to try them all.
And you stopped one day,
And you looked back and asked:
"Where am I in all this?
Can be my feelings create my own life?"
And you didn't hear the answer
Because you didn't wanted to listen...
And new page opened to you,
And you started to fill it with words with no feelings.
And you started to read them to others
With expectation for miracle...
But nothing had happen...
And you started to doubt the words
And to think without direction,
You forgot that the deepest truth of the Universe
Is in ALL our feelings and touch
In ALL creation and misery...
And your words just stopped
Because you didn't needed them


"To see a world in a grain of sand, and a heaven in a wind flower..." (W.Blake)

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10/10/01 04:55 PM

Re: Sept.11 USA Incident and Religions
Post: #22630 / Re: gkmail #22600
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Dear gkmail and Satorius,

Thank you for both of your insights as they are very thought provoking.

Gkmail, I suggest you read the Community section here. There was some very interesting threads that have appeared since September 11.

I consider that fundamentalist ARE fanatics!

I was in Rio de Janeiro this summer and what I found interesting was that although it is 90% Catholic it is more spiritual and less religious than the USA. For instance, people had beautiful little decals of Mother Mary on their car window. In the US we get bumper stickers that say "Honk if You Love Jesus".

We are so "in your face" with our attitudes that it makes no difference if we are right or wrong because we offend others.

Therefore, it is our responsibility as "enlightened" beings to project love and light to this great planet.

I hope you get a chance to read all about Lisa's project to Heal the Nations. Satorius has been gracing our forum with beautiful and uplifting artwork as well as important messages.

Thanks and love,

"One Love, One Heart
Let's get together and feel all right"

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10/10/01 06:11 PM

Re: Sept.11 USA Incident and Religions
Post: #22642 / Re: gkmail #22600
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Welcome back gkmail.

Blessings in God's Light

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10/10/01 06:23 PM

Re: Sept.11 USA Incident and Religions
Post: #22644 / Re: annie_nh #22630
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Dear Satorius and Annie,

Thank you for sharing your thoughts on the subject.

A big applause to your comments on UNITY, the poem and information on Catholics and Christians. Indeed, I feel that being spiritual is a lot more sensible than being religious. I think by now the world have seen the dark side of religions. The next step is to ask the question 'So, what are we going to do with religions ?'

UNITY, and ONENESS is the same concept which many have to grasp. In ONE, there is no one ELSE to lay fingers on. There can be no judgemental statements such as 'I am right and you are wrong'.

However, we live in the relative world, where duality, I suspect, will prevail, as oppose to the absolute realm.

As long as there are 'individual s ', there will always be a chance for 'I am right and you are wrong' sentences.

How do we live harmoniously together in spite of our differences ?


- GK -

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10/10/01 06:42 PM

Re: Sept.11 USA Incident and Religions
Post: #22646 / Re: CarolynZ #22642
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Thank you for the welcome. I have wanted to write but the internet cafes in Europe are in great demand and with hundreds of people working together, the energy is a bit diffuse and I am used to writing in quiet and peace.

Come to think of it, it is almost like being back in universities when everyone is fighting for an unoccupied spot in the computer room at assignment deadlines !

Maybe that is the source of my mixed feelings.

Not those midterms again ..... after all these years, I have always felt that I would do anything than to go back to those days ! (and so this my views on our current education system too !)

Oh, one interesting episode to share here too. While I was in Ireland, I visited a farm where the owner, a warm and loving Irish gentleman, rear championship sheep dogs. What he demonstrated to me with his dogs at rounding up sheep is equivalent to David Coperfield. I asked him how, naturally.

His reply is as follow, ' I NEVER TRAINED THEM. At a very young age, I just sit beside them, watch them play with the sheep, and OBSERVE their behaviours. SOME have a natural talent and like to protect and direct the sheep. I just PICKED them out and NUTURE / ACCENTUATE their BORN TALENTS. That is why I said I NEVER trained them. As for others, they may have a different talent, that's all.'

And I said to him, 'Our teachers and educators should come and spend sometime with you.'

- GK -

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10/13/01 05:46 AM

Re: Sept.11 USA Incident and Religions
Post: #22928 / Re: gkmail #22646
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Maybe we all should be taking "Non-training" from the Irish Gentleman! Thanks for the story.....and
Welcome Back!

Blessings of sheep

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