Religion & Beliefs Thread views: 1250
gkmail
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08/09/01 07:06 AM


What is Genesis trying to tell us ?
Post: #17374
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Legitimate questions to those who insist the Bible is internally coherent. Please don't let them side step the issues.

3 questions on Genesis 6:2 vs John 3:16, and Genesis 3:21 :

a) Genesis 6:2 - "When men began to increase in number on the earth and daughters were born to them, the sonS of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose."

This 'choosing' of girls they like without the consent of the other sex (I didn't see anything about the girls saying "I do"); in modern civilization, there is a 4 letter word in the legal profession beginning with the letter R describing this action. Bill Clinton would be a saint compared to these sonS of God ? More importantly, who are THEY ?

b) John 3:16 - "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."
How do you reconcile the two verses ? i.e. Exactly how many son(s) does God have ?

c) Genesis 3:21 - "....The man has now become like one of US, knowing good and evil. He must NOT be allowed to reach out his hand and take ALSO from the tree of life and eat, and LIVE forever".

This represent what Christians are looking for, the missing link,...eternal salvation ? And who is US ? Logic tells us that BECAUSE Adam and Eve ate the 'APPLE', human has moved closer to 'THEM'. And what is THEIR reaction ? Shut those folks down before they BECOME 'THEM' ! Now, what is so WRONG about BECOMING LIKE THEM ?

Worth some thoughts ?

So, this represent an alternative answer to the question why human got the 'death penalty'. No, not because they have sined BUT, "they must not be allowed to live forever BECAUSE they were getting TOO CLOSE to becoming like 'THEM' ...." or They were designed NOT TO LAST from the very beginning ....

The other question worth thinking is "How close are we ?" Little wonder all the sages in the past pleaded everyone to ask themselves, "Who am I really ?"

Anyway, only if you believe in the Bible ......but these are good questions for your Christian friends.

My advice: do it over the internet, you don't know what their reactions will be......anyway, don't ask if you are in the Middle East ......

GK





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laloba
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08/09/01 09:26 PM


Re: What is Genesis trying to tell us ?
Post: #17412 / Re: gkmail #17374
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Ah GK
we are on the same wave lenght once again......

Blessings of quesioning
Laloba




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laloba
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08/09/01 09:30 PM


Re: What is Genesis trying to tell us ?
Post: #17413 / Re: gkmail #17374
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This quote is part of a conversation of Young "savage" seminarians, 12-15 years old, to the Jesuit father Paul Le Jeune, in the late 1630's

I just posted this somewhere else....but I thought it might go well here too!



"You tell us that baptism is absolutley necessary to go to heaven. If there were a man so good that he had never offended God, and if he died without baptism, would he go to helll, never having given any offense to God? If he goes to hell, then God must not love all good people, since He throws one into the fire.
You teach us that God existed before the creation of heaven and earth. If He did, where did He live, since there was neither heaven nor earth?
You say that the angels were created in the beginning of the world, and that those who disobeyed were cast into hell. How can that be so, since you say the angels sinned before the earth's creation, and hell is in the depths of the earth?
You declare that those who go to hell do not come out of it, and yet you relate stories of the damned who have appeared in the world-how is that to be understood?
Ah, how I would like to kill devils, since they do so much harm! But if they are made like men and some are even amoung men, do they still feel the fire of hell? Why is it that they do not repent for having offended God? If they did repent, would not God be merciful to them? If Our Lord has suffered for all sinners, why do not they receive perdon from him?
You way that the virgin, mother of Jesus Christ , is not God, and that she has never offended Gpod. You also say that her Son has redeemed all men. and atoned for all; but if she has done nothing wrong, her Son could not redeem her nor atone for her."


Blessins of young seminarians
Laloba









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gkmail
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08/10/01 05:46 AM


Re: What is Genesis trying to tell us ?
Post: #17460 / Re: laloba #17413
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Labola,

That is so precise and to the point !

The more I think I about it, the Bible is a very feudal book. 'God' is definitely superior, no matter what, and everything else 'sits' or 'kneel' below it.

This is the same as kings and queens,....and everything/one else are pawns. No matter how loving and nice a king is to you, he still is the king. He can take away his favours anytime as he please. Why would people want to get themselves a king like that ? Inferority complex ?

It sounds like I am rebellous but I am not. I am just dismayed at games like this.

If you substitute the word 'God' with aliens, the whole thing does make a lot more sense, though.

Of Genesis 6:2, doesn't it remind you of Arnold's film 'Predators' ?

GK





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traceyg
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11/10/01 01:53 PM


Re: What is Genesis trying to tell us ?
Post: #25972 / Re: gkmail #17374
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yes, i too find my interpreatations of genesis seem to differ from the orthodox christian interpretation.
I find it amusing that the bible says 'thou shalt not kill' yet in various places prophets are channelling(yes channelling, also forbidden by god) messages from god telling various villages to go to war.
I am actually interested in having a look at the OLD testament to see what was said in that version, as the new testament seems to have been rewritten to suit by every religion known.
regards
tracey,nz




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CarolynZ
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11/10/01 03:56 PM


Re: What is Genesis trying to tell us ?
Post: #25984 / Re: traceyg #25972
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The Qarn says "thou shalt not murder" instead of "thou shalt not kill" which means yes, kill for survival.

Blessings in God's Light


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gkmail
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11/10/01 04:01 PM


Re: What is Genesis trying to tell us ?
Post: #25985 / Re: traceyg #25972
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Tracey,

Welcome !

Exactly, I find the NT so different from the OT that I have serious doubts about this book and its writers' real purposes.

Another one of my question is 'What have religions done to mankind ?'

For one thing, the actions of religion fanatics filled volumes. And the volumes keep growing all the time, especially after Sept.11th, 2001.

Seeker






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Lucy
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11/10/01 09:50 PM


Re: What is Genesis trying to tell us ?
Post: #25994 / Re: gkmail #25985
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Hello Gkmail, your questions/arguments are very interesting...In my religion it is so hard to grow and become the better person you are supposed to be...you constantly have people judging you and telling you that your way of thinking is wrong if you disagree with them. Which is the opposite of what faith and religion are supposed to be all about. And if you notice the more conservative the religion, the worse they get. They are not loving and forgiving like they preach.

By the way, I dont read the bible because I just dont have the patience for it. Maybe someday I will pick it up and try to read thru it. But I do have a question maybe you can help me with....My sister-in-laws are very religious...(you gotta love em though) So anyway...they seem to believe that there religion is the only right one and if you believe differently you will go to hell. First of all I certainly do not agree with this (and I dont really even believe in hell, at least not the kind they believe in) Do you know of anything in the bible that might open there eyes a little?
Love, Amy




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Joanne
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11/10/01 10:17 PM


Re: What is Genesis trying to tell us ?
Post: #25997 / Re: Lucy #25994
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Dear Amy;

I don't know if this will help or not, but God loves us unconditionally and will never ever see or let his children come to harm. Why? Well, if you are a parent... would you do anything to save your children from harm? God/Goddess feels the same way. Forget about the old Sunday School Scare.. it is wrong. Each religion has their good points and not so good points. Just continue letting the unconditional love in your heart and send light to others


Let your heart guide you.
It whispers, so listen closely.



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gkmail
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11/11/01 04:31 AM


Re: What is Genesis trying to tell us ?
Post: #26009 / Re: Lucy #25994
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Lucy,

This website by Donald Morgan is THE website to open the eyes of fundamentalist christians. (To me, fundamentalists are only a hairline from fanatics).

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/

Mr. Morgan (I have conversed with him via emails) was an ex-evangelist. Had been a leader of the church for decades. Now retired with grandsons. His knowledge on the bible is amazing and therefore when he wrote about the bible's inconsistencies and absurdities, it is also amazingly detailed.

He is an arrogant person (I guess a leftover trait from his extreme fundamentalist background). Still stuck with karma despite his age. This is my feeling.

It is good that he can jump out of religion but he still hasn't found higher truths. I tried to help him out by telling him that he has to open his feelings but he didn't get it. Sometimes, it is easier said than done. It is difficult to reverse life-long conditionings especially if it stems from childhood.

To be fair, religion fanatics exist in every religion. I notice they are all stubborn people who INSIST what they BELIEVE is the ONLY truth. And have little tolerance for believers of other religions.

To me, this is actually a sign of a weak ego that needs to be propped up by some doctrines or dogma. If they were stripped away of this coat, they would be scared to death. 'What am I going to do without my faith ?' They would cried out loud.

They maybe excellent students at schopl, playing the model school kid and later model adult.

I am seeing, however, that their soul, who knows every moves they make, will one day urge them to rethink their belief systems (which is a flop, most likely). And that is what I call the wake up call. You can even call it part of a person's spiritual awakening.

I have met several people like this. And my encouragement usually include telling them that

KNOWING is a lot better than BELIEVING.

Getting to know your 'god' directly is a lot better than listening to some second hand version from your church leaders, friends, parents, or people who had been dead for thousands of years (the biblical writers) and whose writings you can never be personally sure that they have not been tinkered with.

My brother have an observation, though. For those who need to find something to believe in, even if you shattered their belief systems, they would simply walk into another belief systems. I agree, some are indeed trained to be like obedient dogs. They 'HAVE' to look for an owner to bark and give them ordres / commands.

Sadly, our present educational system is very good at cultivating this type of human beings.

Sadly, it is this kind of blind faith and obedience that accompanied the pilots of planes plunging into the world trade centers.

I am seeing many starting to wake up from this LOUD wake-up call and re-evaluate their own belief systems. Maybe THIS is the real lesson behind the tragedy.

Seeker




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No1nptkulr
Member
12/11/01 05:49 PM


Re: What is Genesis trying to tell us ?
Post: #29256 / Re: gkmail #17374
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When I have questions such as these I always pray to the one and only and ask for direction. Who better to answer than the one that made it all, and tell me in a way only I can understand. Whether it is in the form of dreams or 'visions' or just what happens in ones everyday life, they are always answered if we choose to accept the answer 'he' gives. 'Remember' and follow the light.




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Dragon
Member
12/11/01 08:05 PM


Re: What is Genesis trying to tell us ?
Post: #29271 / Re: gkmail #17374
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I'll tell you when ever I get up...zzzz

in the mean while, if you interested in the bible, read my revelations post in channeling.
have a fun day..
peace out!
nate
zzzzzzz




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Amethyst
Member
01/09/02 06:07 PM


Re: What is Genesis trying to tell us ?
Post: #32743 / Re: gkmail #17374
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I kinda think it sounds as though we were all kinda created out of incest..... Would have to be, right?

and never , never accept apples from strangers....

Much Love and lIght,


Amethyst


I close my eyes to nothing, yet I question everything.


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Tammie
Member
05/22/03 11:49 AM


Re: What is Genesis trying to tell us ?
Post: #62102 / Re: Amethyst #32743
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Have you ever heard of the Book of Enoch? It's supposedly a part of the Bible that was supposed to come after genesis, explaing the reason for the great flood. In the book 'Fallen Angels and the Origins of Evil' Elizabeth Clare Prophet talks about 'the sons of God'. They believe that in Genesis the 'sons of God' were actually the Watchers (angels) that fell to earth, took on human bodies, and mated with women. In the Book of Enoch (foudn wiht the dead sea scrolls) they are also referred to as the 'sons of God'. When reading the first book of the bible and the book of enoch, you'll see that Genesis 6, verses 1-4 are actually a HUGELY summed up version of the book of Enoch, but that it seems ot have been mistaken that the sons of god were humans, and not fallen angels.

anyways, thought you'd all like to know!

-Tammie




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Xlcr
Member
08/26/03 01:14 PM


Re: What is Genesis trying to tell us ?
Post: #68106 / Re: gkmail #17374
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I created a thread in the spirituality section entitled The Great Earth School - the post is basically saying that Earth was originally a creative venture - just God flexing his creative muscle so to speak - some angels decided to come down and "play around" (Sons of God - still being aware of their connection to divinity). At first they could come down take on the form of their choosing and ascend back to the heavenly relms. Then their play turned ugly they began to mistreat and harm one another "kill" one another even - for they thought the whole earth experiance was one big fantasy play ground and not for real. However once they "died" they found that they were not allowed back into the heavenly relms and were "sentenced" to return to earth (Hell) and make up for their wrong doings.
This is just my break down of the post (it's pretty long) it's really interesting and really spoke to me...check it out and let me know what you think
I just posted it a few days ago




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