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gkmail
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07/18/01 10:25 AM


Christianity and Communism - much similarities
Post: #16020
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I was discussing religion and politics with friends over lunch and it suddenly occur to me that Christianity and Communism are very much alike in certain ways.

Both appeal to the the poor, and condemn the rich. The Bible explicity stated that rich men entering heaven is as difficult as a camel going through the eye of a needle. And communism said capitalists reaped off poor folks. Both 'hate' rich folks.

Imagine the appeal to poor people. You can be as lazy as you want, just be nice and after you are dead, you get to heaven whereas the wealthy bastards end up in hell. Isn't it great if you are poor, the almighty 'God' is on your side against the rich ? All you have to do is believe, and that is not that difficult, is it ?

Quite clever if you want to overthrow the authority, isn't it ? Even more clever would be, deny that you are doing this by saying stuff like, 'I am of no threat to you' 'My kingdom is up there' ? Whether it is up there or not, nobody knows until they are dead. (And do you ever get an IDD call from Christians friends confirming their beliefs ?)

Anyway, for sure, the guy got support from the mass, just like Fa Lun Gong. Who knows what exactly is in the guy's mind except himself ? Did the leaders of USA ALL truly believe in God, or did they get baptized to win the votes of Christians since they are the majority religion ? If one day Buddhism becomes the dominant religion in USA, would the leaders switch their religion to Buddhism ? Only the person in question know and only time will tell with the second question.

Hmmmm, I am beginning to think if Karl Marx stole some of his ideas off the bible.

And yes, Christians call each other brothers and sisters. Commies call each other comrades..... both parties define the bad guys and then go after them with swords (past) and missiles (today).

Just a thought or two.....

GK






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laloba
Member
07/18/01 03:58 PM


Re: Christianity and Communism - much similarities
Post: #16030 / Re: gkmail #16020
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Have not seen you around much lately GK.........Nice to see you again............and with such gusto!..........Holy cow! Your going to get some brains working now................wew!

Blessings of joy
Laloba




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gkmail
Member
07/19/01 04:10 AM


Re: Christianity and Communism - much similarities
Post: #16065 / Re: laloba #16030
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Hi Labola,

Busy with work these days. Balancing the material side ....lol

Hope everyone is well. I actually visit the site now and then and found many good articles.

Keep sharing your thoughts too !

GK




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Lucy
Member
11/16/01 00:02 AM


Re: Christianity and Communism - much similarities
Post: #26461 / Re: gkmail #16065
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I know this was posted a long time ago but I thought Id bring the topic bck up again.
First I should say I agree with you in all the negative things these 2 groups represent. But I have to say if you look at it in a simple way like the whole idea of it....not the way it is, but the idea. ( I guess this is my way of following my plan to take something positive out of everything) First I would say that communism could really teach u a thing or two, as far as everyone being an equal (and i know this is a real stretch here, and very far from the truth) could be a positive thing. Success is pushed so much today, and in a way that the more money you make the more successful you are.....when really a persons success should be measured by them. If I am happy, I do a good job raising my son, am considerate to other people, live with a positive attitude, and touch another persons life, I would say that I am successful. And I feel that if this were a more organized thing and little more fair it could change the way a lot of people look at things.. things might not be such a competition...there might be less jealousy...less ex wives taking there hubby for everything he's got...instead of bringing home your work or traveling all the time for your oh so important job, you might stay home and spend some more time with your wife and kids...maybe you wouldnt get so mad if someone crashed into your brand new lexus(cuz you wouldnt have one! ...maybe less people would marry for money...maybe you would appreciat the roof over your head, the food on your table...the list goes on. And YES.. I do know this world is not ready for something like this and I could list more negatives but I wont even go there!!!
And since this is already so long I wont say much about christianity except they have good intentions but there ego is bigger.
Sorry i rambled on!
Love, Amy




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gkmail
Member
11/16/01 04:23 AM


Re: Christianity and Communism - much similarities
Post: #26477 / Re: Lucy #26461
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Lucy,

I can't agree more with what you said.

Communism, I was told by a young but very talented mainland Chinese, is a very romantic idea. I was surprised by his choice of word - romantic.

But as I reflect, he was quite right.

Christians, can be very romantic about their version of their 'god', and I bet the same with believers of other religion.

The love of some higher ideals plus the dissatisfaction of the many negative aspects of life, may be the basic, underlying thrust that generate the need to believe a higher power, to alleviate the pains and agonies of life.

Yes, balancing the various aspects of life is indeed tricky, very tricky. A very spiritually evolved friend who is a professional medium shared the same opinion.

I love your last sentence '....they have good intentions but their ego is bigger' Certainly true in my experience with these folks.

Out of curosity, what is your view on 'Why are we here on this planet ?'

Seeker






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Lucy
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11/16/01 06:30 PM


Re: Christianity and Communism - much similarities
Post: #26499 / Re: gkmail #26477
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Now why do you have to go asking me a question like that!! LOL -- to be honest I dont quite know exactly yet....but here is what I have so far:
By the way this may be subject to change once I contemplate it a little more. I am reading a book Conversations with God and I took one litte thing out of there that really made sense..."Life (as you call it) is an opportunity for you to know experientially what you already know conceptually"..."You need merely remember what you already know and act on it." -- so I believe we live as many lives as it takes to learn what it is we are looking to learn -- probably until you reach the highest spiritual level which I wonder what that is on earth? -- I actually want to put a question out right now -- If you can recall your past lives, were you spiritually awakened in more than one life time? I just wonder if once you remember on earth if thats it or if you need to go even further -- healing yourself completly of a disease with just a thought -- or will we ever get that good? That brings me to another point, Our ego -- I do believe it could go that far, if we could completly control our ego.
And one more question will everyone eventually be "awakened" in one of there lives??? What if they dont? Even if they are not a so called dark entity.

Do you see how my mind is working gkmail? You ask what seems to be a simple question and I try to respond but end up responding with questions of my own! Forgive me for rambling!!!!
Love, Amy




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gkmail
Member
11/16/01 06:48 PM


Re: Christianity and Communism - much similarities
Post: #26500 / Re: Lucy #26499
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Lucy,

You ARE exploring !

The COG series is an excellent and thought provoking series. Wait till you finish Friendship with God. The idea of divine dichotomy is so fascinating too. And aliens !

On past lives, the ONE book that I consider a MUST READ is Dr. Brian Weiss's book titled 'Many Lives, Many Masters', he has written four. His credentials are beyond questions, by the way.

Indeed, I have met highly evolved people who can tell me my past lives. I cross-checked the information with different people, by the way. And they tallied.

To be able to do this on your own, well, for me, it is by going into hypnotic regression. No, you never become a zombie, you are always FULLY conscious and you can STOP at ANY POINT of time. It is somewhat like deep relaxation, or meditation if you like to call it that.

The Weiss's book has instructions on how to do it and it is very powerful, to me.

By the way, don't worry too much about dark entities.

It is all about vibratory levels or planes. If there is one rule I have found to be true, it is 'likes attract likes'.

Only love is real.

(GK)




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Renato
Member
12/03/01 07:39 PM


Re: Christianity and Communism - much similarities
Post: #28135 / Re: gkmail #16020
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Dear GK,

Most scholars that study Mark 10:25 give a very meaningful interpretation to it, which has nothing to do with condemning the rich.

“It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man, that trusts in riches, or inclines to do so, to enter into the kingdom of God.”

They argue that there must have been some kind of gate to Jerusalem called or known by the name of “the needle’s eye” due to its straitness. The straitness of the gate would be such that a camel would only be able to pass through it if it were unloaded. The lesson, therefore, was that unless the rich man is willing to part with the burden of his worldly wealth, and dedicate first to his spiritual growth, he will not succeed in entering the strait gate.

All those that dedicate to the perfection quest know that wealth is the most difficult temptation against spiritual growth. Being rich, a person feels all powerful and feels no need to ask for God’s help unless he or she is suddenly struck by a lethal illness.

Much Peace,

Renato





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CarolynZ
Member
12/03/01 07:45 PM


Re: Christianity and Communism - much similarities
Post: #28136 / Re: Renato #28135
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Renato you spoke volumes just then. In the same aspect, a person who fills spiritually "full" has no or little desire for monetary wealth and power associated with money and the accumulation of "stuff". Because it just isn't important compared to the feeling of closeness with God. Thank you. Love,Carolyn

The truth lies just beyond your eyesight.


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gkmail
Member
12/05/01 07:18 AM


Re: Christianity and Communism - much similarities
Post: #28361 / Re: CarolynZ #28136
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Hi, Carolyn,

I think the key lies in the word 'Balance'.

We do have a physical body here and it is our job to look after it before we depart from this dimension. (I am referring to adults here).

We also have a soul who sees to it that we experience the events that earth along with its inhibitants has to offer.

Body, Mind and Spirit, let's strive to maintain a proper balance among the three.

GK


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gkmail
Member
12/05/01 07:31 AM


Re: Christianity and Communism - much similarities
Post: #28362 / Re: Renato #28135
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Dear Renato,

Some verses on riches from the bible :

Matthew 19
23
Then Jesus said to his disciples, "I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.

Luke 18
25
Indeed, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

Proverbs 11
28
Whoever trusts in his riches will fall, but the righteous will thrive like a green leaf.

Proverbs 18
23
A poor man pleads for mercy, but a rich man answers harshly

Ecclesiastes 10
6
Fools are put in many high positions, while the rich occupy the low ones.

And on communism, I just have to wonder if Karl Marx got his idea from the below :

James 2
6
But you have insulted the poor. Is it not the rich who are exploiting you? Are they not the ones who are dragging you into court?

GK




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Lpriyalife
Member
12/05/01 02:30 PM


Re: Christianity and Communism - much similarities
Post: #28377 / Re: gkmail #28362
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Ok..Here are my two cents..for what it is worth.

"Rich" is kind of a subjective term. Who decides what "rich" is??

I think when a lot of those things were written in the bible...There WAS a lot of "wealthy" overpowering the poor...Also it was the wealthy that controlled the churches and the money...basically they acted like slumlords and weren't very nice.

Now only in MY opinion just so I don't get into trouble for saying this...One of the reasons I have stopped going to "church" (I believe church is in your heart) is because I HATE being asked for money five or six times in an hour...I want feel closer to God..NOT guilty for the amount I am able to put in the offering plate!

Rich..is another word entirely. I can have NO money what-so-ever..and be RICH!! I think we should all strive to be RICH!

I think I pulled and "Amethyst" and rambled here! haha!

He who laughs.....lasts!

Love and Light,
Lori


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Renato
Member
12/05/01 02:33 PM


Re: Christianity and Communism - much similarities
Post: #28378 / Re: gkmail #28362
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Dear GK,

As I said, wealth is a very dangerous trap. A spirit that reincarnates in a wealthy family or which becomes rich during its current life has a strong tendency to see itself as a powerful god, able to do anything without caring for the feelings of others and without being criticized or punished for its actions. There are certainly exceptions, but is obvious that, being poor, an incarnate spirit will naturally see itself as powerless and easily conclude that it is easier to survive in peace respecting other people. A poor person, having little money to pay for physicians and medicine, will also turn itself easier to God asking for help, making its evolution path easier. On the other hand, being a dangerous trap, wealth is also an important proof. Whoever succeeds in spiritually evolving while being rich certainly reaches a very important goal, which every one will have to reach one day.

Lord Jesus was just stating a reality when He said those sentences. He was not condemning rich people but rather stating the dangers of being rich and only trusting wealth.

Theoretical communism talks about equal conditions and rights for everyone. In that sense, it was certainly similar to Lord Jesus’ teachings. Nevertheless, Lord Jesus never taught or supported struggle among social classes as a means to obtain equal conditions. Instead of social struggle Lord Jesus taught unconditional love.

Much Peace,

Renato




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gkmail
Member
12/05/01 03:07 PM


Re: Christianity and Communism - much similarities
Post: #28380 / Re: Renato #28378
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Dear Renato,

The idea of extremities underlies our topic. Personally, extremities in any form, is dangerous to me. Weath is but one form. I often say, if you drink water non-stop 24 hours, you would have a kidney failure pretty sonn.

In terms of weath, extreme richness and poorness would probably be equally severe a test to any soul who choose this experience.

How many robbed because of poverty ? At the same time, how many buy human dignity with their monies ?

I say, both of the above flunk the money test.

As I said before, balance, is the key. One friend's remark on financial richness is, 'Let me have enough so that I won't have to rob or steal, but not so much that I am tempted to abuse.' Consider he was only 25 when he said that, I have a great deal of respect for such a wise comment from someone his age.

Seeker




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diesel_02356
Member
12/05/01 03:50 PM


Re: Christianity and Communism - much similarities
Post: #28383 / Re: Renato #28378
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MM Renato,
We have not often seen eye to eye on posts we have both answered, but here I believe you are in the right. I am not a Christian as you know, but the two of these couldn't be any any different. This may sound harsh, but only to a blind and death man of the soul could these seem similar. May your light always shine brightly.
love and light




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gkmail
Member
12/05/01 04:02 PM


Re: Christianity and Communism - much similarities
Post: #28384 / Re: Lpriyalife #28377
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Lpriyalife,

Thanks for the comments. I share your views too.

The churches these days, especially the catholic, have so much money and assets that some said the pope is one of the richest man on earth.

And priests were selling 'redemption coupons' to rich men by telling them they could end up in heaven by buying those coupons. The priests did that as part of their fund raising activities to build the St. Peter's Cathedral when they found they did not have enough monies.

I was told that some of the descendants of those rich folks are still fighting in court with the catholic church over their ancestors' properties.

To be fair, these people who live on other people's need to believe can be found in any religion.

GK


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gkmail
Member
12/05/01 04:12 PM


Re: Christianity and Communism - much similarities
Post: #28385 / Re: diesel_02356 #28383
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diesel,

Resorting to the ancient tactics of name-calling ?

GK





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diesel_02356
Member
12/05/01 04:23 PM


Re: Christianity and Communism - much similarities
Post: #28386 / Re: gkmail #28385
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MM GK,
If what you called name calling is bad what do you call comparing some ones faith towards something as wrong as comunism. Believe what you will, but leave others to believe what they want without knowingly comparing their faith to something that would upset them. You openly tried to upset thos who are christians. Yes name calling is wrong thats why I said that this might be harsh, but you never took into consideration the feelings of the christians now did you. May your light always shine brightly.
love and light
Wisdom is earned not granted




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gkmail
Member
12/05/01 04:45 PM


Re: Christianity and Communism - much similarities
Post: #28387 / Re: diesel_02356 #28386
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diesel,

[.....something as wrong as comunism]

Looks like we have a good example of prejudices here.

By the way, who are you representating ? 'others/them/christians/yourself' ?
How do you know christians have problems with communism ? Especially when you are not one ?

GK




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diesel_02356
Member
12/05/01 04:57 PM


Re: Christianity and Communism - much similarities
Post: #28388 / Re: gkmail #28387
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MM GK'
Prejudice you've got to be kidding. The right to offer ones opinion is not predujice nor did I say you were predujice. I said that you knowingly said something that would be hurtful to christians. yes I am not a christian I am Wiccan, but many friends of mine are christian and were in disbelief when I spoke to them about your comparison. It looks like to me you are pretty much just someone who writes something hoping for nothing more than conflict. I do believe that communism doesnt work at least this is one strong opinion from the worlds history. I do believe that most who live in a comminist society are not given the choices any living creature deserves. You try and have a good day andenjoy life to the fullest. may your light always shine brightly.
love and light




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Renato
Member
12/05/01 06:06 PM


Re: Christianity and Communism - much similarities
Post: #28399 / Re: gkmail #28380
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Dear GK,

I have the same respect for your friend's remark on richness than you. It was surely a very wise comment and prayer.

Much Peace,

Renato




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Renato
Member
12/05/01 06:12 PM


Re: Christianity and Communism - much similarities
Post: #28400 / Re: gkmail #28384
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Dear GK,

We, Brazilian Spiritists, are all Christians in the sense we respect and follow Lord Jesus's true teachings as commented in "The Gospel Explained by the Spiritist Doctrine". We don't have either churches or riches. All our services are free of charge, mediums work for free and our motto is "Charity".

I hope knowing Spiritism may make you have hope in Christianism today.

Much Peace,

Renato




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Gerrit
Administrator
12/05/01 09:45 PM


Posts: 7295
Location: Spain
Member since: 01/08/00 09:58 AM
Last online: 02/11/20 01:42 PM
Re: Christianity and Communism - much similarities
Post: #28422 / Re: gkmail #16020
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Now that my attention was pointed to this post... first of all, it would be nice if everyone could calm down and return to respectful descussion of the matter. Accusations of any nature will not contribute to the discussion but just inflame it.

Since I have heard quite a bit about communism in my philosophy and history classes... it seems to me though that there are significant differences. What you describe as "appeal to the poor", well, "You can be as lazy as you want, just be nice and after you are dead, you get to heaven whereas the wealthy bastards end up in hell." ... this statement is not quite accurate if you examine communism and Christianity. That is not at all what either is about. Inded, communism calls upon the individual's sense of responsibility, but due to the lack of it in many people, this had to fail... people just abuse the system, regardless whether it's communism or social capitalism. Marx assumed that everyone was good in the essence, but this preamble appears to be wrong. Indeed, this is where there is one major difference to orthodox Christians, as far as I have been told they assume everyone to be bad and sinners who need to turn away from the bad and be good, in simple terms. Now, in my personal opinion, the truth is right in the middle... basically every soul has both forms of energy, negative and positive. Which they use and let flourish, that is up to them. Nobody's soul at creation is good or bad, it just "is". Well, I don't want to get too far of the topic here... "Isn't it great if you are poor, the almighty 'God' is on your side against the rich?" It would be interesting to hear how you got to that conclusion. Indeed, it seems to me, looking at history, the Christian churches have in the past helped to suppress the poor... and helped keep the feudal system for a long time... well, all that has pretty much changed, but looking back at the past, this is the impression I got. While this may sound as criticism against Christian churches (and it is), I am not criticising Christian beliefs, as they are in essence pure and proper, but the power of churches especially in the middle ages was quite different from what Christianity in essence means. I hope I'm not offending anyone with these statements... no offense is intended, I'm merely stating how I feel about what happened back then.

Well, now back to the conflict that arose here... when I read over the posts, I realized that it seems to me that one thing led to another and originally things might have just started with a minor misunderstanding... just a feeling I have... and one misunderstanding led to another... maybe I'm wrong... but whatever the cause, I ask everyone to please become calm again. I know everyone is still more on edge due to the events of 9-11 and the consequences of that. Indeed, I fear that the worst is yet to come, the developments of a possible real escalation in the middle east are troublesome. We need to stand together and not quarral over little things. Especially as lightworkers we need to be able to forgive. As I can see both side's point of view to some extend, even though I cannot agree with the language starting to develop, I wanted to express my thoughts and ask you to respect each other's opinion. While we are limited to the written word as a form of communication, sometimes it is difficult to sense how words were meant, and may lead to a reaction that was not intended.

Love & Light
Gerrit


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Lpriyalife
Member
12/06/01 01:19 AM


Re: Christianity and Communism - much similarities
Post: #28443 / Re: gkmail #16020
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Ok..another two cents. The comparison of Communism to Christanity doesn't really work..(in my opinion) because...Communisim was developed by men to control people and supposedly to keep everyone equal...ect ect ....Christianity is a way of life that people choose (not much of that in Communisim!)...A way to worship and a base to build a value system. The belief system is based on Christ and his teachings...It was not developed with any ill intent.Anyone who follows Christs teachings with a pure heart can't go wrong wheather we beleive he was the actual son of God or an incredible prophet or just a myth. His teachings were of love and faith. (Another thing I don't hear much about in realtion to Communism)......We as humans are falliable and because of that...in some cases Christianity as a "religion" has been tainted. However the very core of Christianity is GOOD...Unlike Communisim. Therefore...in my opinion Christianity at its core..is spiritual and communism at its core is Material and therefore at the most fundemental level...the comparison doesn't hold water.
With all due respect to everyone!

He who laughs.....lasts!

Love and Light,
Lori


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Joanne
Member
12/06/01 01:22 AM


Re: Christianity and Communism - much similarities
Post: #28444 / Re: Gerrit #28422
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Thank you Gerrit for this reply. It is well said, better than I could of ever done it.. and I somehow felt you would of responded. Since September 11th events, things have not been the same here at the forum.. a lot of tension.. a lot of misundestanding as well. It saddens me to see this.. and I for one has been quiet because of this..I have been praying and sending light and will continue to do so. I have learnt so much already and continue to learn from you all everyday...and I thank you. Please, everyone, read carefully Gerrit's wonderful reply.. for I feel the same way. Thank you Brother Dear.

Let your heart guide you.
It whispers, so listen closely.



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gkmail
Member
12/06/01 10:41 AM


Re: Christianity and Communism - much similarities
Post: #28486 / Re: diesel_02356 #28388
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diesel,

1. [The right to offer ones opinion is not predujice nor did I say you were predujice].

Every one has a right to express his opinion in a society that encourages freedom of speech. It is your judgement on communism : [....comparing some ones faith towards something as wrong as comunism. ... ] that I deem a prejudice.

Next time you judge something, back your arguements up by evidence, and not just attitudes.

2. Athough you did not call me prejudiced. You say the following in response to my comparison :

[This may sound harsh, but only to a blind and death man of the soul could these seem similar]

You admitted name-calling is wrong. Are you trying to do something that is wrong by calling it harsh ?

3. This is not a christian forum, as far as I know. If my intention is to launch an attack on christianity there are plenty of christian internet forums on the internet and I would post my opinions there, not here.

4. The reasons why communism does not work are many. It does not necessarily mean those reasons have anything to do with religions.

5. . [I do believe that most who live in a comminist society are not given the choices any living creature deserves. ]

This is your belief. Without evidences to back it up, it is just a belief without grounds. Beliefs that are based on propaganda material can only fool people who are ignorant, and ready to believe in anything. Don't be one of them.

GK




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gkmail
Member
12/06/01 11:21 AM


Re: Christianity and Communism - much similarities
Post: #28492 / Re: Gerrit #28422
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Gerrit,

I am just pointing my observation out the similarities between christianity and communism. Of course, there are differences as well.

[Inded, communism calls upon the individual's sense of responsibility, but due to the lack of it in many people, this had to fail... people just abuse the system, regardless whether it's communism or social capitalism. Marx assumed that everyone was good in the essence, but this preamble appears to be wrong]

This is quite similiar to christianity in the sense that the biblical who assume Adam and Eve would obey his orders when he gave them the choice of partaking the tree of knowledge of good and evil (if he didn't give them the choice, according to the bible, the earth would be a very different place.)

["Isn't it great if you are poor, the almighty 'God' is on your side against the rich?" It would be interesting to hear how you got to that conclusion]

I have quoted some biblical verse in my previous posts on the bible's views with regard to the rich and poor. e.g. being rich is a lot more difficult to get to heaven.

To me, being rich does not automatically mean that the person is a bad person, nor is being poor automatically made a person good.

From the bible verses, however, I am of the opinion that it sides with the poor MORE than the rich.

In conclusion, my opinion is that both communism and christianity tries to address the gap between the rich and the poor as part of their doctrines. Of course, their solutions would not be totally identical; otherwise there would be no point in giving these solutions a different name.

But there are similiaries, e.g. communism: it is the capitalists who exploit the working class,

christianity : Proverbs 10:15 [ The wealth of the rich is their fortified city, but poverty is the ruin of the poor. ] Matthew 19:24 [Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."] and if the above is not enough, then look at the gosphel of James:

James 5:1 [Now listen, you rich people, weep and wail because of the misery that is coming upon you.]

Hence my observation that 'both tries to appeal to the poor.....', Or, 'comfort' the poor. One suggest to the poor that they were exploited and to rise up and go for class struggles, the other tell them they will be rich in heaven.

GK






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diesel_02356
Member
12/06/01 07:03 PM


Re: Christianity and Communism - much similarities
Post: #28529 / Re: gkmail #28486
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MM GK,
" Communism a set of ideas about how and why history moves and in what direction it is headed"
These ideas were developed mainly by V.I. Lenin from the writings of Marx.
"Christianity developed in the ministries of jesus. During his life time, jesus preached the gospel meaning good news, that god was coming to earth to be among his people in a special way. He warned his listeners to repent their sinful ways to be ready for the approaching kingdom of god." The Bible declares "THOU SHALT NOT KILL" and "BLESSED ARE THE PEACE MAKERS" just to name a few.
Communist usually refer to their beliefs and goals as socialist, but socialist do not consider them selves communist. Communist and Socialist both seek public ownership or regulation of the principle means of production, But most socialist FAVOR PEACEFUL and LEGAL METHODS to achieve their goals , while COMMUNIST have often used FORCE without REGARD to LAW. Used force without regard. Once again I wonder how Christianity and communism are alike.
Blessed Be




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gkmail
Member
12/06/01 11:52 PM


Re: Christianity and Communism - much similarities
Post: #28564 / Re: diesel_02356 #28529
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disel,

I have already pointed out my observation on the similiarities between christianity and communism is based on the fact that both idealogies attempt to address the issue between the rich and the poor. And they differ on the part of the provided solutions.

On your comments on using force by communists, though, what do you think the christians in history used when they fought their religious wars ? Their words and the bible, only ?

GK

Edited by gkmail on 12/06/01 11:55 PM.




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Dragon
Member
12/07/01 02:26 AM


Re: Christianity and Communism - much similarities
Post: #28578 / Re: gkmail #16020
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Mormons (not to offend any one, but this is straight fact..since I grew up in the mormon church and studied it very well.)
Have practiced communisim for a long Time!

Joseph Smith came up with the concept from the Lord. He called it the law of concentcration.

What is was is you gave everything to the church, and they would divied it up equaly to every member according to the need of things.

(this is also found in the new testiment in acts...infact a couple was killed by the Apostles because they "held back" some of there crop..or goods, or what ever it was.)

Today, the mormon church doesn't openly practice the Law of Concencration since Communisim is not Legal in the states...well, openly anyways, you are required to give to the church 10% of your net earnings and something called a "fast" offering.
Also, they have a great welfare program where they feed members of there church if they have no food.
(often, on my mission, we would just have people interested in our food and free money we would give out to memebers and then join the church for that...not because the believed, because they wanted free stuff...it was a sad situation...often they would get the stuff, then stop comming to church..that is untill they needed more stuff...(you have to come to church to get your free stuff, btw) then they would dissappear...not good at all!)


Also, as a mormon when you go to the temple and take out something called your endowments (which is nessary if you want to return to your Heavenly Father and Live with him and also to gain the highest of the kingdoms of Heaven called the celestrial kingdom--three are even yet 3 levels in that kingdom the highest kingdom is where you can gain "Godhood" and become a God, make your own planet, have inhabit it with people, who come from you and your Wifes (pologomy is nessary to become a God. yes, that is still being taught and they do still do this...but however they at this time have postponed any physical polgomy..only spiritual. Here is an example: My Grandpa (whom i love dearly) is a full time mormon, attends the temple everyweek, pays tithes, always goes to church and all meetings...he is consided a very faithful mormon...however, he is married to two women..but the catch is, only one is alive (physicaly.) You see, mormons believe in a temple marrage...once you marry in the temple you are "sealed" together forever..you are married for eternity! (always husband and wife!) Now, the current rules are you can marry only one person at a time! But if you wife dies, you can marry another woman in the temple and get sealed and be married for all time and eternity..thus, you will have two wifes. This is not looked down apon, and it is even encouraged to get sealed to your wife, even if it is your second.
There are rules however. If she has already been sealed to someone else, you can't seal your self to her..only get married for time. A woman can't be sealed to one then more man, but a man can be sealed to one or more women. Both have to be faithful mormons and been though all the steps of becoming a mormon. And, your last wife has to be dead in order to marry someone else...in the old history of the church, you could have more then one living wife.
Now, on to what I was answering about the law of concencration, or communisim as you may call it.
Even in the temple, you make a covenent (a very strong promise) to follow this law of concencration...even though it has been labled communisim and is legal in both canada and the states. Here is what it says (quoted):
"We are instructed to give unto you the Law of Consecration as contained in the book of Doctrine and Covenants, in connection with the Law of the Gospel and the Law of Sacrifice which you have already received. It is that you do consecrate yourselves, your time, talents and everything which the Lord has blessed you, or with which he may bless you, to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saint, for the building up of the Kingdom of God on the earth and for the establishment of Zion. "
then you just "bow your head and say "yes." "
no option to say no btw...unless you yell it out, then you get kicked out of the temple...but I have never heard or seen anyone that has happend too..
when I was on a mormon mission I was in the temple at least once a week...so i learned it inside out.

Anyways, I'm not putting this stuff down to put down the mormons or anyone else...
it is just interesting info...don't use it to attack mormons.
Mormons are good people, my bro. is still an active mormon (but has never been to the temple yet.)
They may believe things that seem wierd to us, but to them it is normal and the only way they can ever reach God and become like him (a god them selfs.)

I let them believe what they want to..if it brings them closer to God and makes them good people, then that is good for them, right?

I only share all of the religion because I think that to truly appeciate the Mormon religion, we must first understand it, what they teach and why they do teach it.

Mormons may have something like communisim..but you must remember, a lot of other people in the world out side of the states believe that communisim is the best way for things.

So we must understand that, and appreciate there views and ideas..even if we don't agree with them, we should respect them aswell.

(also many people in the world practice polgomy and are perfectly fine with it...it is just in our culter it is seen as something not good...remember, even in the old testiment (bible) many of the early Prophets practiced polgomy regularaly..ie Abraham, Israel (person, not a place!), and many others!

Anyways, that is my thought for the day..
bye!

Love light and peace!






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gkmail
Member
12/07/01 06:18 AM


Re: Christianity and Communism - much similarities
Post: #28597 / Re: Dragon #28578
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Dragon,

Thank you for your information and wise remarks.

It is useful to remember that communism and christianity are ideologies, and communists and christians are people who believe in these ideas.

It is all too easy to make concluding remarks about the ideologies based on the behaviors of their believers. This is very dangerous, in my opinion.

Any person's behaviors are a product of many environmental factors, education, life experiences, cultures at the time.... to name a few.

Dragon, it sounds like you have travelled quite a bit. And this is a compliment from me. Your remarks on tolerance and respecting other cultures are similiar to my experiences with people I know who travelled widely.

Thanks again for your input.

GK




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Amethyst
Member
12/07/01 06:28 PM


Re: Christianity and Communism - much similarities
Post: #28653 / Re: gkmail #16020
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Ya know, I keep telling myself, there are 2 things that ya just don't argue, LOL...And that's Religion and Politics.... it's real hard proving things that aren't tangible, obviously one is less tangible than the other here.... but....

I don't see anything much in the way of true "similarities" here, though I guess you can "twist" some things into similarities... heck, you can even weave our government into this statement at times with the "rich and the "poor" analogy.... Then again, if I work real hard, I think I can equate the Easter Bunny... and Santa Clause.... and maybe even the tooth fairy....

~BIG GOOFY TOOTHY GRIN~....heehee

Amethyst


I close my eyes to nothing, yet I question everything.


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gkmail
Member
12/08/01 03:00 PM


Re: Christianity and Communism - much similarities
Post: #28794 / Re: Amethyst #28653
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Amethyst,

Here is another twist :

Christian Socialism - led by J.F.D. Maurice, Charles Kingsley, and John Ludlow, two of them were Anglicans. Date of 'twist': early 18th century.

GK




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