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AaronBenjamin
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Does G*d love us unconditionally?
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Hi all, do you believe that G*d loves us unconditionally? And if so, then why do bad things sometimes happen?

Na Nach Nachma Nachman MeUman

Edited by AaronBenjamin on 12/23/14 10:21 PM.




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Goldenserenity
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Re: Does G*d love us unconditionally?
Post: #123080 / Re: AaronBenjamin #123077
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I believe God does Love us all unconditionally.
It's not up to God to be chasing everybody around making sure nothing "bad" happens. To do that means there is no free will choice. Many times, when something "bad" happens, it's because of a choice someone made, and the outcome may not be what the person wanted to happen. I don't really consider anything to be bad. I see it as pleasurable or not so pleasurable. Any experience we have leads us to our next destination in life.


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AaronBenjamin
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Re: Does G*d love us unconditionally?
Post: #123081 / Re: Goldenserenity #123080
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Hi, thanks for your comment. Why do you think that bad things need to happen in order for there to be free will? For example, can't a person go to a restaurant and choose what they want to order without anything "bad" happening? Is that not an expression of free will? What do you all think?

Na Nach Nachma Nachman MeUman


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Balance888
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Re: Does G*d love us unconditionally?
Post: #123082 / Re: AaronBenjamin #123081
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God does love us, without doubt. But it is our love for God, that propels us to enter this reality. Due to that love we are willing to confront that which we call darkness. The darkness of others and the darkness that can and does encase our souls. As we progress we must overcome the challenges put before us through the higher mind. These challenges are of coarse based on perceived bad events happening, within our lives, its how we handle, face these events which will please or displease our God.

Love is the key

Edited by Balance888 on 12/24/14 10:13 PM.




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AaronBenjamin
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Re: Does G*d love us unconditionally?
Post: #123083 / Re: Balance888 #123082
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Based on my limited knowledge of Torah, I also do believe that G*d does love us unconditionally. My reasoning for saying so is that I have learned that eventually when the final redemption comes everything will turn out for the best in a general sense and all people (as far as I know) will thank G*d for both the good and what they previously had perceived as being bad, since it will be understood eventually how everything is / will be for the ultimate good. This seems to imply unconditional love. On the other hand, before we reach that time of the final redemption, it is difficult to believe in the unconditional love of G*d sometimes, when painful or "bad" things seem to happen to the individual or community etc. As far as darkness goes, my general approach is to rely on G*d to solve my problems for me, (when the redemption comes, if not sooner) but sometimes when I feel I am able, and it is appropriate, I try to do what I can.

Na Nach Nachma Nachman MeUman

Edited by AaronBenjamin on 12/24/14 11:54 PM.




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AaronBenjamin
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Re: Does G*d love us unconditionally?
Post: #123084 / Re: AaronBenjamin #123083
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It could be that I am succumbing slightly to wishful thinking, maybe G*d is a bit more judgmental than I think. There are some harsh things that have happened throughout history and that happen sometimes R"L (may the Merciful One save us) and the Torah also does speak about the justice and judgement of G*d in some places as well.

In truth, I kind of hope for a combination of both and I believe that they both exist. On the one hand the unconditional and perhaps unwarranted love of G*d for all people and even all of creation in general, combined with the infinite justice and wise judgement of G*d that only He can fathom and that will be a wonder to us at the time of the redemption.

Na Nach Nachma Nachman MeUman

Edited by AaronBenjamin on 12/25/14 00:08 AM.




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Goldenserenity
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Re: Does G*d love us unconditionally?
Post: #123085 / Re: AaronBenjamin #123081
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In reply to:

Why do you think that bad things need to happen in order for there to be free will? For example, can't a person go to a restaurant and choose what they want to order without anything "bad" happening? Is that not an expression of free will? What do you all think?


Bad things don't have to happen in order to have free will. Free will choices are just that... free will.
People are always making choices, and through those choices there are consequences.
If I go into a restaurant and order food, one of 2 thing will happen. I will either have a pleasurable experience or I won't. If I order food that doesn't agree with me and I know it won't but I still order it, that is my free will choice, but there will be consequences. It's not up to God to save me from myself.


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AaronBenjamin
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Re: Does G*d love us unconditionally?
Post: #123086 / Re: Goldenserenity #123085
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Are you suggesting that we control or cause everything that happens to us? I don't really believe that to be the case. Many things are out of our control it seems to me.

Na Nach Nachma Nachman MeUman


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Goldenserenity
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Re: Does G*d love us unconditionally?
Post: #123087 / Re: AaronBenjamin #123086
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In my opinion, pretty much so. Otherwise you are saying that there is some other force sitting there striking people be it "good or bad".
Say I make a choice to leave my husband, and I make the choice to take my children with me, then something bad happens that appears to be against my control, such as the court steps in and demands my children must be returned back to their father. That to me is against my control, but the original cause was due to a choice I made. Everything we do stems from a choice. What happens next is the consequence. You know, cause and effect.


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AaronBenjamin
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Re: Does G*d love us unconditionally?
Post: #123088 / Re: Goldenserenity #123087
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I would acknowledge that there is an element of cause and effect in our lives as we make choices and face the consequences of those choices etc., however I would also suggest that there are many things in our lives that happen to us that are not necessarily as a result of our choices these are things that are in G*d's hands not our own.

Na Nach Nachma Nachman MeUman


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Goldenserenity
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Re: Does G*d love us unconditionally?
Post: #123089 / Re: AaronBenjamin #123088
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ok

But, Happy Holiday's to you!


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AaronBenjamin
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Re: Does G*d love us unconditionally?
Post: #123090 / Re: Goldenserenity #123089
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And to you.

Na Nach Nachma Nachman MeUman


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Balance888
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Re: Does G*d love us unconditionally?
Post: #123091 / Re: AaronBenjamin #123090
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From what I understand, our lifetimes are planned. So from that stand point, challenges are built within those plans. I'd have to say that these are from a higher perspective Gods plans. Think of it this way, if we are never challenged in our lives, then how are we to grow. If we live a life of comfort, then what would drive us to question?

Love is the key


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AaronBenjamin
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Re: Does G*d love us unconditionally?
Post: #123092 / Re: Balance888 #123091
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It says in the Ethics of the Fathers a Torah text that "all is foreseen yet free will is given". This would seem to imply that we do have free will, however perhaps it means that G*d already knows what we will choose before we choose it, since He is beyond time and omniscient etc. A person can be challenged without "bad" things happening as well, it would seem. If a person climbs a mountain that may be a challenge. If two sports teams play against each other to win may be a challenge, but in these two examples nothing "bad" had to happen in order for there to be a challenge and possible growth. When you say that we need to question, what do you mean by that? Do you mean questioning the existence of G*d? I can't see what other kinds of questions "bad" things happening could inspire.

Na Nach Nachma Nachman MeUman

Edited by AaronBenjamin on 12/25/14 10:45 PM.




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Balance888
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Re: Does G*d love us unconditionally?
Post: #123093 / Re: AaronBenjamin #123092
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A sportsman maybe challenged emotionally to reach an elite level, and for example the one who wins will experience elation, and the one who loses can experience depression. As well a person who climbs a mountain, can make it to the top, but they may not achieve that and could get stuck on that mountain, break a leg or even an avalanche could happen. Without challenge there is no growth. Sports and physical fitness can lead a soul to have greater endurance during challenging events.

The most advanced souls on earth are given extremely difficult lives. Of coarse sometimes our lives are born of Karma. Really only God and the higher-soul-mind have the reasons why things are as they are.

Quote AaronBenjamin-
When you say that we need to question, what do you mean by that? Do you mean questioning the existence of G*d? I can't see what other kinds of questions "bad" things happening could inspire.


When we are born, we accept the conditioning of the land we are born to, or more to the point the conditioning of our parents. These beliefs control our reactions to life events and unless the God-mind challenges us through what we term Bad events, for without these events we'd stay the same.… The soul as it advances is incredibly stubborn and needs world shattering events to change and grow through, as it develops. In the end we are to learn balance meaning, self survival, and self preservation. Now some spiritual people may say we only need to be a giving person and everything will work out in our favour. And these things are hard to explain because we are all at different levels of evolvement. So one explanation will be appropriate for one soul and yet that same explanation would distract another because their actions are not ready for balance.

Love is the key

Edited by Balance888 on 12/25/14 11:36 PM.




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AaronBenjamin
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Re: Does G*d love us unconditionally?
Post: #123094 / Re: Balance888 #123093
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As far as I understand, when the messiah and final redemption come, there will no longer be any death or even illness and injury yet people will live eternally. I would think that growth will still be possible at that time, but maybe I am mistaken. I am under the impression that death and injury came into this world after Adam and Chava (Eve) ate from the Tree of Knowledge of good and evil - the forbidden fruit. If not for that sin, there would have never been death and illness in the world.

Na Nach Nachma Nachman MeUman


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Balance888
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Re: Does G*d love us unconditionally?
Post: #123095 / Re: AaronBenjamin #123094
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My understanding of redemption, would be redemption is a personal attainment. In truth why would it be any other way.

Through my visions, I've been informed that the higher-mind, God is in the collection phase. It is collecting souls who have chosen to remain encase by their darkness,and they will not be reincarnation for the next thousand years.

During the next thousand years, only souls willing to do the work required to move forward will inhabit the earth. This how ever doesn't mean there will be no challenges, but it does mean we will have some movement back towards a balanced world.

Religion and in fact all material written is based on interpretation and our souls would love an easy out. Unfortunately that is not what we are involved in. And lets not forget religion is based on self-preservation, the priests interpret their dogma based on what the con-situate wants to hear. No one wants to here they have to change or that self evaluation and challenges faced move you forward. It's so much easier to believe some force outside yourself will take away your problems. That some miracle energy will come down and save us all. You see what I saying.

Love is the key

Edited by Balance888 on 12/26/14 00:53 AM.




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AaronBenjamin
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Re: Does G*d love us unconditionally?
Post: #123096 / Re: Balance888 #123095
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In Judaism, I am not sure what we believe about other religions, they may be man made as you suggest, however we believe that the Torah - both the Written and the Oral Torah - are given by G*d and they are therefore not in the category of man made dogma etc. That is what religious (orthodox) Jews believe, if I am not mistaken.

So when the Torah tells us that there will be a final redemption with a resurrection of the dead, healing of the ill, eternal life, a fixing of all problems, world peace etc. this is not merely catering to what people want to hear in our view - it is a message to us from G*d through the Torah.

Na Nach Nachma Nachman MeUman


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Balance888
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Re: Does G*d love us unconditionally?
Post: #123097 / Re: AaronBenjamin #123096
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Quote AaronBenjamin-
So when the Torah tells us that there will be a final redemption with a resurrection of the dead, healing of the ill, eternal life, a fixing of all problems, world peace etc. this is not merely catering to what people want to hear in our view - it is a message to us from G*d through the Torah.

I can only explain what I know through my personal experiences. I've had a very challenging life this time, and I needed that hardship to motivate change of my belief system.

Around Ten years ago I went through a life shattering ordeal. In one year, I lost the person I loved, my home and my business, I was so low, I could see no hope. I was beyond depressed I'd reached a point of why go on? What is the point? When everything you've loved and worked for has been annihilated?

During that time I contemplated ending my life, and not just a fleeting thought, but true contemplation. I'd get up in the morning and think, "I can't do this, I need to end it. I'm not strong enough to make it through this. " I'd repeat and repeat this thought throughout the day, morning and night until one day, I was walking down the stairs. when once again I repeated my statement, "I'm not strong enough, I need to ends it'"

Then a thought outside my own entered my mind it said, " There's no point, you'd only have to come back and do it all again. " I immediately replied with, " Forget that, I'M NOT GOING THROUGH THIS AGIAN, I'll such it up and continue on.", From that point I was awakened to the higher-mind, and through my Dreamworld my life was fully explained to me, the reasons why things happened as they did and what I was trying so hard to learn.

So is their redemption? Yes, but only through our personal sacrifice, and only God knows what you are required to go through.

From what I've personally been shown, not what someone has written or interpreted through someones words, words which can and are misinterpreted, I can tell you, redemption and all it stands for, is the resurrection and reconnection to the higher-mind, God. Through sacrifice, a sacrifice that only comes from devotion to Love. It's under the conditions of sacrifice, given, without knowledge of being tested, that redemption comes.

That is the condition we enter this plan of existence. There are many other realities, all as real as this one. And the higher-mind grows through them all. This is just one and we are locked within it until we balance our energy, locked here through the cycle of reincarnation. I have had it explained to me that, my soul mind has reincarnated here Hundreds of times, so difficult is it to overcome the environment.


Love is the key

Edited by Balance888 on 12/26/14 01:49 AM.




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Moongold
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Re: Does G*d love us unconditionally?
Post: #123100 / Re: Balance888 #123097
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I think that we are all part of the one great Spirit, whether you call it 'God' or not.

If we live in love and service we become more divine. Obviously this is a long evolutionary process.

So we 'are' part of Love but we evolve with knowledge, understanding and choice.

You have asked an interesting question. Thanks!


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