Religion & Beliefs Thread views: 3036
 
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Moobesh
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02/06/13 04:40 PM


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A New Faith Organisation
Post: #117430
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Hello All, My name is Ben Brierley, I am a customer services advisor for a social housing provider in the UK.

to cut a very long story short I have had a calling to ministry for a very long time in 2009 I became an ordained minister with the universal life church, I was Christened Church of England when I was lest than 12 months and have ever since felt the lack of alignment with any current faith.

I have come to the realization that this may very well be that there isn't an organisation out there suited to my beliefs or inclination. I have also come to the conclusion that there is a place for a new faith to be established.

please lets discuss this?

Kindest Regards

Kindest Regards

Ben


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Soffty
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02/06/13 07:17 PM


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Re: A New Faith Organisation
Post: #117431 / Re: Moobesh #117430
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What is Hell?

Reincarnation...yes or no?

How does the soul relate to the science in this world and also to the science of the other dimension?

Why is ego delusionary and selfish?

This would be a start.

Wade

truth in my actions


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Risingtide
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02/06/13 07:52 PM


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Re: A New Faith Organisation
Post: #117432 / Re: Moobesh #117430
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What are your beliefs which could form the basis for some new faith?

There is now an atheist church with weekly meetings in London, so anything is possible.

Amituofo
"Life knows its needs"



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Moobesh
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02/07/13 12:29 PM


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Re: A New Faith Organisation
Post: #117451 / Re: Risingtide #117432
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Risingtide thanks for replying.

Well the main tenant of the faith isn't so much a specific belief but to facilitate communal relief in people. The idea is to bring people together, to learn and enjoy the experience of life. there is no requisite to believe in a supreme being, the idea is to believe in humans as an equal and diverse race with a variety of variations. Ministry from the church/temple/center would be about learning together, working together, exploring spirituality and physics which to my mind is God and God's magic.

So the core is:
o All Sentient Beings are equal, but diverse and this is to be respected as such
o We have the can do, be and have anything we choose
o We may believe that which we choose and respect the beliefs of others
o Life is to be enjoyed



Kindest Regards

Ben


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Moobesh
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02/07/13 12:52 PM


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Re: A New Faith Organisation
Post: #117452 / Re: Moobesh #117451
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Evening Soffty sorry I didn't see your post

I'll be honest I do not have the answers and I don't think any one should presume to have absolute answers to anything. and any answers should be supported by evidence much in the way scientific research gives us answers

What is Hell? I do not believe that Hell is a different place I do feel though that Hell is relative to an experience or person, such as those that experienced starvation and death in concentration camps or those children that are abused in their own home, for instance

Reincarnation...yes or no? I do believe that I have been here before and many times I do not know what form I have taken but I am constituted of the same materials of the stars so to my mind its hard to imagine i have not. I have a connection to everything in the universe and if you consider time. time is a relative concept. time can appear to pass slowly, quickly or not at all. it is something that as a race we have developed although it is connected to the rotation of the earth on its axis and its orbit of the sun but if you consider the age of the planet, the race and the visible universe its pretty non existent

How does the soul relate to the science in this world and also to the science of the other dimension? The soul to my mind is connected to everything that is, has been and will be. I like the idea that we are in many a dimension.

Why is ego delusionary and selfish?
Yes its Selfish, but life is to be enjoyed its not wrong to be selfish. I do feel it is a delusion also but delusion is often viewed in a negative way. but think of delusion as a way to recognise and differentiate a being. I would say that when we look at another person it is a delusion to think that that person is different from you or that God is apart from you or indeed the starts and planets and matter and anti matter are apart from us. But i think we are here to enjoy and experience life so in this sense the delusion is good

thanks for the questions, brilliant and thought provoking

Kindest Regards

Ben


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Tawmeeleus
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02/07/13 01:55 PM


Re: A New Faith Organisation
Post: #117453 / Re: Moobesh #117430
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Hi Moobesh,
Question? Why do we need another organisation? Organisations limit freedom of thought and inner reflection and have rules, rites, dos and must not dos.

Personally, I believe in spirituality being an inner path, a soul doesn't need an organisation to evolve or grow.

The word organised by it's very definition means, to bring order to. I prefer to develop without order, order in itself places limitations.

I do strongly believe in tolerance.

I also strongly believe that nobody has a monopoly on the truth. Truth is different for everyone. Just because the whole world believes in something, doesn't make it truth. Truth changes as humanity evolves and grows.

take care
Tawmeeleus





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Moobesh
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02/07/13 05:44 PM


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Re: A New Faith Organisation
Post: #117454 / Re: Tawmeeleus #117453
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Hey Tawmeeleus

I love your questions and think I need to take some time to think about a sufficient answer. I will give it ago but before I do try and answer it, in view of your comments I would like to say that people the mind set and outlook you explain above are people that would make great mentors and teachers and I would love these types of people within this organisation. My organisation would be an entity to support and resource people with your above detailed concepts to provide an access point for those that choose it. We would be an ever evolving and progressive entity that seeks truths instead of obtains and monopolizes them. I am always reminded of famous truths such as the Earth is flat and at the edge of the atlantic ocean is the end of the world and if a person travels faster than 30 miles per hour they will explode, or man will never fly and I think, in relative terms it is the truth but the truth at that relative time, location and circumstance. but then the world became flat, and the Americas appeared, a person didn't explode at 30MPH or even 121mph (honestly officer I was going 70) man flew, we have been to space. Truth to me is only truth relatively. relative to understanding, circumstance and a hole host of other parameters.

Why do we need another organisation? well maybe organisation is the wrong word. I did choose this because I don't want a restrictive term that could turn off those from other stand points. such as for instance Church, in my experience its a neutral term but for others this could be a very negative term. a colleague at work for instance is roman catholic however she hates even hearing the word Church or religion even because of a very negative church connected up bringing.

but getting back to the question why another organisation? I do agree that organisation can limit freedoms in a variety of contexts but organisations can also provide a stable foundation or platform of learning, emotional support, physical aide, financial security ect.... now what I would like to see is a mechanism of support or a sort of base of operations for an individual to explore their inner path and find their truth (I do agree and love this concept that each person has an individual truth, it boggles my mind and excites me) provide support, relief and love in a focused manner. The idea of another organisation would be to provide this base. for instance lets say we maybe have a monastery (forget the idea of celibacy and silence etc....) here men and women would live together, they would work within the monastery growing and cooking food, they would maintain the buildings, learn skills etc... and learn and could draw on a sort of group buying power of experience, personal journey and guidance to use in their spiritual experience. these people could be in a position to reach others with that seek or need that support. maybe a 'monk' (just a terminology for this example) could travel to world helping to build, grow and cook food, teaching the skills in places where there it is needed. now i envisage that a religious organisation could get this done where a business may not be able provide it because of limitations.

now to me rather than this organisation being a hierarchic of authority it would be more of a guidance or facilitator. a place for people to find or access learning and support in many difference ways. A relief or safe haven in view of the tough world we live in. One thing that could be achieved through this type of organisation is a decentralized and neutral mechanism to facilitate world political union. which could provide so many benefits. The organisation i imagine would certainly be an active member, actor, cog in the workings of life. not from a position of judgement or authority or even power. it also wouldn't be bond by the chains of tradition or rigidity and certainly wouldn't be passive but productive and proactive in its work helping people.

I hope this reply isn't to disjointed


Kindest Regards

Ben


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Tawmeeleus
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02/08/13 01:12 PM


Re: A New Faith Organisation
Post: #117460 / Re: Moobesh #117454
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Good luck but I don't think I will be joining.

My inner path has served me well, it is what I trust and it has never let me down.

Take care
Tawmeeleus


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Moobesh
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02/08/13 01:39 PM


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Re: A New Faith Organisation
Post: #117461 / Re: Tawmeeleus #117460
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thats a shame to hear but I do get it. I don't want to take individual journey and truth from a person I also don't want to control or interfere with an individuals path but encourage it. I also want to provide a way to support those that seek the support and facilitate world union. I've enjoyed talking to you about this though tawmeeleus.

Could I ask you to make more comments when you feel fit?

Kindest Regards

Ben


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Tawmeeleus
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02/08/13 06:20 PM


Re: A New Faith Organisation
Post: #117462 / Re: Moobesh #117461
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Facilitate world union?

When You feel fit?






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Risingtide
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02/08/13 10:22 PM


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Re: A New Faith Organisation
Post: #117465 / Re: Tawmeeleus #117462
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What is needed more than a new organization is the adaptation of traditional methods to the modern way of living.

In our stressful world, to ask people to do additional stuff, e.g meditation, is ludicruous. What is necessary to develop and promote are methods which integrate into our life without being intrusive in any way. Whatever the method is, it must work anywhere, at any time, under all circumstances.

While a practice should be integrative in terms of time, it should also be disruptive in terms of our thinking and operations.

If, by applying such methods, one has more free time because one is more efficient then by all means, also make use of the other traditional practices.

Why is it OK to use 2000 to 6000 year old practices as they were understood then but it is not OK to use a book that was written 2000 years ago as it was used then?


Amituofo
"Life knows its needs"



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Tawmeeleus
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02/09/13 06:19 AM


Re: A New Faith Organisation
Post: #117467 / Re: Risingtide #117465
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I must have missed that post, the one where people were asked to meditate and where it was said that it was okay to use 2000 to 6000 year old practices as they were understood then but it is not okay to use a book that was written 2000 years ago as it was used then! I personally believe that people should be free to use whatever method works for them, no one has monopoly on truth, we are all different. I choose my way and I don't expect anyone else to tell me I am right or wrong no more than I would tell them they are right or wrong!
It would be a very boring world if we were all the same! Free will is a wonderful gift.



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Risingtide
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02/09/13 02:47 PM


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Re: A New Faith Organisation
Post: #117477 / Re: Tawmeeleus #117467
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What you missed is that in the distant past people got enlightened by the thousands just by e.g. listening to the Buddha, and the Buddhist practitioners which followed. if one is to belief such reports and even takes them with a pinch of salt it is evident that whatever happened or was used to convey it has lost its effectiveness.
The point of my post was that any new organization which only preaches the old stories is superfluous. We have too many of them already.
My impression is that this new organization will not provide much more than what can be found on TED or youTube, except maybe for direct interaction with the presenters.

IMO, any new organistion worthy to be established needs to be disruptive to the way we think and behave.

You are free to use whatever you want but I'd prefer not to waste my time considering that my aim is to become enlighteend in this life time.

Amituofo
"Life knows its needs"



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Tawmeeleus
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02/09/13 04:14 PM


Re: A New Faith Organisation
Post: #117478 / Re: Risingtide #117477
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How do you know that I am not enlightened/awakened? Or that I have wasted my time? You presume something that you do not know. Or that travelling the inner path is not the method that they used thousands of years ago!!!!!!!How do you think the buddah got enlightened/awakened? Enlightenment is a gift from divinity, we cannot demand it, it is a gift! To be enlightened means to have access to divinity and hidden knowledge. There is always a price to pay for enlightenment and that is the loss of the I , me, self, mine, enlightenment lives in the collective conciousness which is what divinity is all about. Unconditional love, that is always the message from the enlightened ones.
By the way what you missed is that I wasn't advocating for a new organisation. Anyone that reads my posts knows that I am all about the soul and the inner path.
I do enjoy your posts Risingtide. I do respect your views and I wish you enlightenment in this lifetime.
take care
Tawmeeleus

Edited by Tawmeeleus on 02/09/13 04:29 PM.




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Moobesh
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Re: A New Faith Organisation
Post: #117480 / Re: Tawmeeleus #117462
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Yeah facilitate world union. I believe that we're all equal but clearly diverse and I think that we should pool resources and develop planetary goals. I think there should be a world government and nation and current area/nations/regions would become states of that nation. this would mean there wouldn't be a need for defence against other nations, defence, research education and law enforcement could grow from the money saved in this area. there would also be a hierarchy of courts that to deal with disputes between states, groups, individuals etc.... and a most importantly there wouldn't be a third world. people from these other nations would have equal opportunities because they are no longer from another nation that doesn't have enough resources to meet the basic needs of its populous just a different place within the world nation. It would mean that as a collective we could dedicate ourselves to finding cures, exploring space, building a better civilization. Now although I do not dispute this is almost utopia, I don't think its naive to think it can happen in our life times. I would like to be an independent unbiased facilitator of getting this in motion. I believe that my concept of a new faith could lead to this possibility

and yes, if you feel fit to make any comments, criticisms, remarks etc.... I would love for you to make them

Kindest Regards

Ben


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Tawmeeleus
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02/09/13 07:07 PM


Re: A New Faith Organisation
Post: #117481 / Re: Moobesh #117480
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Again I say good luck, it is not for me!

Eutopia? Eutopia is for a society that is perfection. If we were perfect, we would not be here!

Good luck




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Moobesh
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02/09/13 07:12 PM


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Re: A New Faith Organisation
Post: #117482 / Re: Moobesh #117480
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Hey Guy I absolutely love our conversation. Its helping me refine my idea and really enjoyable, I would love to try and respond to your comments. I’m not sure if im getting my concept across very well here. I do apologise but i’ll keep trying. I want to answer them in order of your posts but the forum doesn’t have the space to include them plus that can be really irritating to reread them

Hey Risingtide.

See here I wouldn’t say its ludicrous for someone to do extra stuff. But as with all my comments and ideas its relative. I mean personally I love meditating and doing self hypnosis but I have 3 small children one of which is severely disabled, I work full time and sometimes I can get really fed up and frustrated and its just doesn’t feel good so its not always practical, for me. Another person however may find this really good and simple to work into their lives. The idea of this new faith organisation isn’t about using old practices and reviving them, it also isn’t even about new modern day practices. Its about learning how to enjoy life how to achieve the things we want and how to make life relative to each other well enjoyable. Now if you think of us more like a group with resources available to those who seek them. So in the context of meditation, there would be a vast group buying power of meditative knowledge. So say you want to learn or you have come to a wall the organisation would be somewhere to turn to to help with this.

I love books and I think that the more I read and the more variety of books I read I will find my way, books for me are sort of my compass or the buffers on a pinball machine.

Hey Tawmeeleus

You are absolutely correct in my eyes, we should be and are free to use whatever methods work for us. I do not want to change this, I want to encourage this. I want to encourage critical thinking, to learn different ways and for everyone to have and realise the opportunity to do, have and be this way. The idea of an organisation would be to support this type of view, to reach other stages with it but ultimately it would be to help others from these stand points. So in encouraging love and critical thinking issues can be tackled, famine, war, abuse

We should all follow our own path but if we all contribute to a collective goal we could achieve anything and yes that does include ridding the planet of abject poverty and starvation and even war and conflict as we see them now.

Hey Risingtide

I do not want an organisation of preachers. That is what current religions in a general sense do now. I want it to be a place of learning and teaching. Now its not teaching as in the preaching sense but teaching methods, thinking and skills to develop a personal path and view. And if teachings from a billion years ago can be applied to my life and benefit it I will certainly draw on that. But I think you need to have a toolbox of beliefs, methods and skills. I don’t believe that one thing will work in the same way every time. I have learnt that the hard way lol. Sometimes meditation works to distress me other times its nailing someone into the ground over an oval shaped ball (I am talking about rugby honestly)

I think entity that is as fluid and adapting as I envisage this one will be disruptive, but not in a negative sense. So ultimately it would be an organisation of learning and teaching what has been learnt and about to dissect and develop a personal truth from the resources that are out there and our own individual knowing. Sort of how Quantum Mechanics is taught from a basic theory. The theory is a basic platform that allows us to understand how thing are and will be but also allows for a flexibility that changes with the universe.

Tawmeeleus could you envisage an organisation that allows and supports the soul and inner or personal path? Thats what i’m after. But what I want to do is bring that support to people. And if there were an organisation that say had the resources to the extent of the Roman Catholic Church then I believe that the issues of our day could be tackles hard like that guy running away with my rugby ball.



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Moobesh
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02/09/13 07:14 PM


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Re: A New Faith Organisation
Post: #117483 / Re: Tawmeeleus #117481
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Thank you for that and I do hope that even though you do not choose to be involved, that you feel welcome to criticise, observe and communicate with us

Kindest Regards

Ben


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Risingtide
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02/09/13 11:25 PM


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Re: A New Faith Organisation
Post: #117485 / Re: Moobesh #117483
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Isn't there a huge number of new faiths already? Are New Age people not just making things up and absorb the things they like as they go along, while rejecting the things they don't like?
Making it up as they go along?

Maybe the word faith and organisation are not well chosen. There is certainly a need to nudeg people towards greater self-awareness and any method that does that is welcome.
My conerns are about effectiveness and universality. I shall not repeat what I have already said about effectiveness. Universality is another requirement, clearly one-on-one therapeutic relationships can never ever have the impact on the world necessary to effect some real change. Any exclusivity must be avoided, which means that universality must also apply to whatever people beliefs are now and that whatever is set up must enhance their experience rather than require them to discard it and embrace something new.
Some of my thoughts for now.


Amituofo
"Life knows its needs"



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Mathew
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02/10/13 02:12 AM


Re: A New Faith Organisation
Post: #117486 / Re: Risingtide #117485
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G'day All

I think we have enough ism's to tell you the truth & the more ism's we have the more likely we are going to come into conflict, I really think we also have had enough conflicts as well.

Dogmatic views, beliefs, doctrines & ideologies don't interest me as they are only there to make others subservient & none of us are subservient to another.

It's nice to want to help Moobesh but yet another ism isn't going to help I feel.

Love
Mathew



Acceptance of all leads to true spiritual awareness.


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Moobesh
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02/10/13 02:40 AM


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Re: A New Faith Organisation
Post: #117488 / Re: Risingtide #117485
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I dont know about there being a huge number of new faiths but there are certainly lots of new ideas about life and how it should be lived. this organisation would most probably be more of a school of thought sort of like a church denomination.

like i say I dont want to use restrictive terminology like church but lets use that word for instance at the minute. The idea would be that we are a church without tie to any current religion. there will be different areas such as ministry and monastery and the executive. its members would explore their personal path and be encouraged to. they will also learn skills that can help others. so ways to give medical aide, to build irrigation and sewage systems, to think and fend for themselves and these skills can be used to improve the lives of those these members come into contact with. I am not concerned so much with another persons believes as long as their belief do not negatively impact another person.

Maybe the word faith and organisation are not well chosen. you could be right here

There is certainly a need to nudeg people towards greater self-awareness and any method that does that is welcome. I dont necessarily believe this, I think if we began helping each other and we build a nation on this planet that is single, equal and diverse and education in this nation is proactive rather than learning to pass exams then people will gradually move to there greater awareness. I personal believe I have been here in different forms and at different times from the historical perspective but I dont believe we are here to learn to be enlightened I think we are here to enjoy the experience (which certainly isnt happening in many contexts)

My conerns are about effectiveness and universality. I shall not repeat what I have already said about effectiveness. Universality is another requirement, clearly one-on-one therapeutic relationships can never ever have the impact on the world necessary to effect some real change. Any exclusivity must be avoided, which means that universality must also apply to whatever people beliefs are now and that whatever is set up must enhance their experience rather than require them to discard it and embrace something new. you are getting my concept now (lol I told you I wasnt conveying it very well) and where the universality of it is concerned I believe that is looking at it from the wrong example. the way I envisage this 'Church' would be to have a sovereign entity either with territory (which is very different as everyone everywhere has claim on every piece of land barring around a 1000 miles square unexplored segment of the Antarctic) or as with the Knights of Malta doesn't have a territory but is recognised as sovereign by the UN. now the sovereign element to the church would be a kind of chair of the board and there would be regions around the world of autonomous church each would adapt to the region it is in allowing the universality to appear and be maintained.


Kindest Regards

Ben


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Moobesh
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02/10/13 03:08 AM


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Re: A New Faith Organisation
Post: #117489 / Re: Mathew #117486
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Hey Mathew,

I do take your meaning here. I not trying to establish a new ism, sort of like a new business that is born out of old ones that aren't necessarily effecting change in a big enough way. but I dont want to use the term business because this is in now way about making money and that is one reason for the idea around sovereignty.

If you think of a business (at least in the UK) you are welcome to believe that wish you choose in most ways, but you all have to pull in the same direction. where I work its about providing social housing, maintenance our properties and support to the vulnerable and every individual agrees to these goals regardless of their personal beliefs around the benefit system, our tenants our religious, philosophical and political beliefs.

so maybe a new faith organisation doesn't do the concept any justice. maybe its a not for profit business or an order of people whos goals are to deal with issues and to seek their personal journey through the entities group resources

I do really thank you guys for your comments, they are helping refine things

Kindest Regards

Ben


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BlackbirdRising
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02/10/13 07:30 AM


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Re: A New Faith Organisation
Post: #117491 / Re: Moobesh #117489
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BEN. What are some of your goals for personal development? How would you like to see yourself connect, and what would that enable? I am sorry for my very slow response into this thread. I became homeless 3 weeks ago after the river rose too fast. I also started a new fulltime job a week ago, 2nd shift, as if that would be easy in my current situation. I used to be online everyday for hours, now its by cellphone using a tiny touch keypad, for maybe 20 minutes a day.


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Moobesh
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02/10/13 01:53 PM


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Re: A New Faith Organisation
Post: #117492 / Re: BlackbirdRising #117491
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I'm really sorry to here about your housing situation, do you have emergency shelter and support?

In terms of development for myself I want to be the facilitator of real change in the world change that removes the learned helplessness and false bonds on the collective and the individual. I'm not sure how I will connect, that is a detail that certainly needs some work. I would like to be a sort of entrepreneurial coordinator, someone that brings together the resources, tools, teachers and those with the skills to approach the tasks. That in my mind would enable real motion towards world political union and genuine change in places that need it. an irrigation and sewage system built in a place that has none. an economy built and jobs created

Congratulations on your new job and I do hope things settle soon

Kindest Regards

Ben


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BlackbirdRising
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02/10/13 05:36 PM


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Re: A New Faith Organisation
Post: #117494 / Re: Moobesh #117492
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he Red Cross helped us, yes. Things will get better. They can't get worse. I'm a teacher. My true calling is to teach. I went to college and graduated with hpnors, got licensed, cant find work in my field, so I'm working on a production line. I wrote a book that didn't sell. I've endured a lot of personal failure over the last twe. It is definitely my time to succeed. But after a lifetime of failure I'll admit, the idea of success scares me.


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Moobesh
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02/12/13 01:10 AM


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Re: A New Faith Organisation
Post: #117500 / Re: BlackbirdRising #117494
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The idea of success is a bit of a fearful thing for me as well. have you tried hypnosis such as those from www.hypnoisdownloads.com? i'm currently doing self motivation and organisation.

i'm sure with your mindset as long as you hold your desires and focus you'll be very sucessful. what is your book about and is it on amazon?

Kindest Regards

Ben


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BlackbirdRising
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02/12/13 10:32 AM


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Re: A New Faith Organisation
Post: #117501 / Re: Moobesh #117500
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I'm sure its on found on Amazon. Its a paperback, My Secret: Memoirs of Love & Survival. Its about my recollection of 20 years of life. Meeting my equal. My life partner. Then being ripped away from him, for two decades. During which time I mothered 4 beautiful children who were my whole life, and survived 17 years of abuse and dehumanization, and I carried a huge secret within me - that my true love was the real father of my oldest child. When I told my daughter she was 18. She asked to meet her real dad. I prayed for a miracle, to find him, to tell him knowing my controlling husband would never allow me access to tell him. The miracle unfolded. Thats what its about. I would like to see this book fall into tge hands


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BlackbirdRising
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02/12/13 10:34 AM


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Re: A New Faith Organisation
Post: #117502 / Re: BlackbirdRising #117501
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Hands of women, or men, who need help recognizing and escaping abusive relationships.


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Moobesh
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02/12/13 03:57 PM


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Re: A New Faith Organisation
Post: #117504 / Re: BlackbirdRising #117502
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wow, I just searched for it and sent you a private message I think I could help you here a lot. just getting back to the topic, what do you think then? I'd like it if more people could pitch in it seems to have dried up a bit

Kindest Regards

Ben


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BlackbirdRising
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02/13/13 00:35 AM


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Re: A New Faith Organisation
Post: #117508 / Re: Moobesh #117504
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Ok I'll check my messages.


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Bluestar
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05/12/13 04:28 AM


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Re: A New Faith Organisation
Post: #117960 / Re: Tawmeeleus #117453
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Greetings and Blessings. I am new to this forum, but was reading this thread and thought it was a good place to start. Although I can understand your desire of starting a new organisation, personally I do not feel that it would be appropriate. We have an abundance of different organisations on this world, all of them thinking that they are here to assist people. We are all on a journey, and it is an important journey as well. But another organisation is not the answer. Living our truth, in harmony, love, acceptance and tolerance of each other is probably the best course of action any of us could do. Then we become a living example.
The other issue with another organisation is what would be created from that. Invariably it would create sheeple. Followers as it were. There are enough of them in the world. If each person simply lived by the tenets of love, respect and tolerance of all, then that would have a more profound influence in this world.

Blessings


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