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Dattaswami1
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Reason for the unimaginable nature of God
Post: #114339
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Reason for the unimaginable nature of God
The unimaginable God has no spatial dimensions


Everything in this world which has spatial dimensions is imaginable. The spatial dimensions may be very minute but can be recorded through sophisticated instruments and thus the minute entity becomes imaginable. Only an entity not having any spatial dimension becomes unimaginable. Therefore, the reason for the unimaginable nature is only the absence of spatial dimensions. Such an entity must be beyond space.

The third phase is the process of creation of this Universe from such unimaginable entity. There is a logical necessity for the generator of the Universe, which essentially includes space, not to have the spatial dimensions. The logic in the generation processes of worldly items is that the cause exists even in the absence of the effect. The lump of mud exists even if the pot is absent.

The mud is the cause and pot is the effect. The imaginable entity having no spatial dimensions must be the cause of this Universe having spatial dimensions. The reason for this is that in the absence of the Universe, which means the absence of the space, the unimaginable entity having no spatial dimensions can exist. The absence of spatial dimension means the absence of space or Universe only. Therefore, the unimaginable God having no spatial dimensions must be the cause and the Universe or space having spatial dimensions must be the effect.



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Ijin
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08/17/11 05:49 AM


Re: Reason for the unimaginable nature of God
Post: #114694 / Re: Dattaswami1 #114339
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The unimaginable nature of god, the unimaginable god has no spatial dimensions.

It`s not hard to imagine god, aswell as if he had no spatial dimensions, he wouldn`t exist.

I think you mean more to say that he has no spatial dimensions that we can pick up with our physical bodies.

After all an entity like this is ethereal and thus allready is located outside of the physical spectrum.

Even then, let`s say he is pure mental, the mental realm, or for instance the mindspace would be able to even house god, since when you think of god, everything you relate and associate with god makes him able to be imagined.

Also the often misconception of dimensions.
A dimension is simply a direction, or even a point of view, as in direction to look at it from.

We are 3 dimensional beings, as in we see 3 dimensions, we are able to establish 3 ways of looking at direction.
Aswel as 1 and 2d.
or fake 3d, it looks 3d, but it`s actually 2d, you can find a nice example on morkulv`s post with that snake thing picture wich makes your eyes hurt.

Makes my eyes hurt anyway

Yet there are thousands hundreds of thousands who ccan define god on the spot for you, i think you call those people religious people.
And they aren`t right either, if indeed god is unimaginable, since if he was, he also would be undefinable.

After all just look at fiction for example, great stories where even higher forces then god have been imagined and realized on the white screen or on paper, in that regard the ability to create and imagine, is far greater then that wich we think god did.

After all don`t you hold an inner universe of your own?
Doesn`t your life define this world?
This alone makes us equal to the position of A god, or god like entity.

The mud was the means, the person was the cause of the pot.
Before the mud turned into the pot, the person created and imagined what it should become.
Might not have created the mud, but sure as hell created the pot.

However as you say if god is outside of space, where would he be then?

Consider this list if you will.

If god is not in space or a space:

God can be outside of the space wich would be another space, if you think about it, a location remains a location, even if we cannot define the location.

God can be in the mental realm, either of one, or in many a shared collective space.

Or perhaps that the space is created by the collective, in turn giving god a place to exist.
Even if he would dwell in non existance, that is also a location, for what is can be not, and for what is not, can even be a mental space.

Or if nothingness is a particle, so the space of nothingness would simply be a space with particles that we cannot register.
Even nothing can be something.

But yeah this is a nice post you made, it gives room for such debate as this, even if i would be wrong it does create the possibility of understanding.

Let`s see what you have to say on this then^^

watching the world fall


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Dattaswami1
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08/17/11 06:19 AM


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Re: Reason for the unimaginable nature of God
Post: #114696 / Re: Ijin #114694
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All the non-God items are worldly objects, which are parts of creation. All these items are known first and then only their existence is mentioned. When you say that a pot exists, it means that you are stating the existence since you know the pot already. Hence, the existence of any worldly item requires the knowledge of that item already. If you do not know anything about an item, you will not say that it exists. Hence, the existence always requires the prior knowledge of the item. But God is beyond world and is unimaginable since God is not known. Hence, the existence of God is not similar to the existence of the worldly items. Since the existence of worldly items, which requires prior knowledge of the item, is absent in the case of God, God can be said as an item not having the existence of worldly items and hence God is non-existent (Asat) in this sense. This does not mean that God is really non-existent because God really exists as per Veda (Astityeva….) and hence God exists (Sat).


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Soffty
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08/17/11 07:16 AM


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Re: Reason for the unimaginable nature of God
Post: #114698 / Re: Ijin #114694
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Ijjy, what efforts have you made toward seeking truth? Do you read? Have you studied? Have you told your story that allows you to know what you are talking about?

From what I have read, you made a small effort to seeking truth, and assume the rest. I hope I am wrong, as that is the definition of ego.

Running away from the ego is what a 25 year old does. That is life. We all, 100%, have ego attach when we incarnate. Playing games does not change that, it defines that.

Wade

truth in my actions


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Dattaswami1
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Re: Reason for the unimaginable nature of God
Post: #114702 / Re: Soffty #114698
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Soffty ;


jealousy and egoism and human incarnation

Arjuna believed the human incarnation but a little jealousy and egoism existed with him. Krishna knows the mind of Arjuna even though Arjuna praised him as Lord every time. Krishna always presented the concept of the double personality of human incarnation to Arjuna to satisfy that little jealousy. If the house owner says that the Prime Minister is present in his house, certainly some jealousy will be created. But if he says that he is the Prime Minister the jealousy will go to climax. You will understand all this if you constantly watch your thought every time and you will realize the truth in my words. Hanuman killed this ghost of jealousy and demon of egoism completely. We do not accept even the real greatness present in a fellow human being. But see the case of Hanuman. He is several times greater than Rama. But still he became a slave to Rama. Hanuman had all the super powers and Rama had no super power. Can you become a slave to a fellow human being even if you are much greater than him? You can not think this even in dream. Then think how much Sadhana you have to do to reach the state of Hanuman to recognize the human incarnation which often appears in a lower state! Hanuman served Rama in His personal work and not in uplifting the world. If you are in that state you will immediately criticize Rama. This is a test for you that whether you give higher place to the Lord or to the Society. Imagine how much it is difficult to recognize Krishna, who often exhibited even Rajas and Tamas (bad qualities!). This state is very dangerous in recognizing God in the human form and some times the devotees may even run away. Therefore, Krishna neutralized such sever test by exhibiting some miracles. Since Rama exhibited always Sattvam, there was no necessity exhibiting any miracle.



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Ijin
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08/17/11 02:54 PM


Re: Reason for the unimaginable nature of God
Post: #114706 / Re: Soffty #114698
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I perhaps can start counting how many times you will say the exact same while i have you cornered on every stage of verbal conflict here.

Here a nice one for you then older people who have lost and wasted their time in the end feeling unhappy with themself and their life, take it out on people who are younger then they are, because i am not your age i don`t see things your way, i can assure you that i wouldn`t have said you are right.

Why because you are someone who lost it and now goes around in a last ditch effort to save yourself, while miserably failing to do so, since you plucked a fight with the wrong person to be plucking a fight with.

Mentally we can see that i am superior to your age, at least to what you come up with at your age.
I use the word superior just to [censored] you off about that ego stuff you are shouting around.

Telling me to quiet down? ha i will quiet down when it is the time to do so, i don`t have to back up for you or anyone else, and i certainly don`t have to take your insults.

So you get some reaction and you know what?
since it transpired, it is called life, it came to pass, you have made it so that someone my age, has to teach a guy your age a lesson.
How tragic is this world getting?

You know back in your day you would have gotten an earfull and a fistfull in the face for spouting crap like this, you realize that?

Want to know then?
fine, i studied this world since i was 7, documented things, observing things, when at your age you where going to school doing as your parents told you to do or else, i was making poisons from plants i crossbreeded myself, then i stepped to chemicals it is amazing what you can accomplish with a little thermite or turpentine, i started making bombs for fun i was interrested in them like fireworks.

Ofcourse duing this time i learned about frequencies, and when i was still 7 i started handling spiritualmatters, finding out what energy is, finding out the limmits of the mind, to be short there are no limmits and with that mindset i started out doing things, making things happen, making sure i got the full jist of it because i did not want to miss a thing.

At the age of 12 - 13 i was teaching other people how to control their own inner energy to support their bodily functions, a year later i started out with a research group wich got disbanded because of the powerfull workings our energies had been trained to in order to get things done, in the end a total of 17 people died due to the bad use of energy and invoking of things, whatever they have may been.

The same year i was dealing with pantheons and other spirits through the help of a medium channeler, and a person who could see energy, from that point i used my then gained knowledge for making sure to make a guide for energy users, wich in turn had been successfull, i still use the techniques and practices today, although over the years up to now have been finetuned in a spurt of growth in my knowledge and actions.

Around now i had allready started one organisation and it came off the ground and it worked splendidly, gathering current data and old data to compare it and to make sure to test it so we know what was real and what was not, same as what was not yet there wich we made by effort and research.

Then i got mixed up with a medium type energy seeing person who i got into a relationship with and that is where my vast knowledge and methods to work with the inner world and the advanced use of the mindspace capacity to create an inner world from scratch and then using it as a port to be spiritually present in other inner worlds of other people.

By this time we had infiltrations rather then visits, we would just go in and either conquering everything for ourselves or we would help them and set them to work for us under the pressure of death.

This all involves spiritual dealings, inner world dealings, mindspace dealings and i mean the whole shabbang, not the kindergarten stuff or hey i think god will provide, no if you need to get something done you better do it yourself and make the effort rather then depending on something wich cannot help me here.

If this life is meant to better yourself then you are doing a bad job at it while i am doing my best to make sure i spend my time here on this forsaken earth doing what i can and doing what i must in order to improve ,my life sure, but taking up the part of helping all you people along with it.


watching the world fall


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Ijin
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08/17/11 02:55 PM


Re: Reason for the unimaginable nature of God
Post: #114707 / Re: Ijin #114706
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Since now with my 3rd organisation we do still invade and just visit, but we don`t rule them, we make sure they are doing their best, since when an inner world of a person is fully functional with no conflict in it but a steady peace wich can make you live life more directed at gicving a damn about others, then yes i am doing a [censored] service and i`m not even charging for it, i am doing it for free, with my own free will.

You open your mouth one more time about me not having studied or even asking the question have you studied, while i clearly come up with more knowledge and wisdom then you, then you are the one supposed to take a freaking learning from it rather then bitching at it because it wasn`t you yourself who got to that point.

You get it now?

Do you finally get where you stand?
Do you finally realize that the goody goody you are promoting is som ething you are neglecting to follow yourself and i mean every step of the way.

Is it finally ringing through that numb skull of yours or do i have to make myself even clearer?

Do i need to dumb it all down for a person who is bitching me about my age, who fails to make a difference?

I am not playing games, but you sure are playing one and i will warn you you are playing a dangerous game with a dangerous man.

So far i have not even uttered the consequences of what it is wich i can do spiritually and i haven`t threatened with it so far.

But keep it up and i will pay you a visit personally.
You just won`t know when or how i did.

Now fu ck off.

watching the world fall


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Soffty
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08/17/11 04:28 PM


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Re: Reason for the unimaginable nature of God
Post: #114715 / Re: Ijin #114707
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Ijjy, thank you for explaining yourself so readers may understand you.

What do I need to do to allow you to defile me and blast me into the realms of death? Should I stick my tongue out at you?

I would be honored to accept your punishment. Just think, the famous egotist, Ijjy, immortalizing me in blazing glory.

If only I could do such a wonderful favor for you. I await your "blessing".

Wade

truth in my actions


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Morkulv
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08/18/11 05:19 AM


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Re: Reason for the unimaginable nature of God
Post: #114722 / Re: Soffty #114715
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Well, there is no need to go into great detail on this topic since Ijin already did a pretty good job at refuting Softy's nonesense. Let me just point out that the title of this topic is a direct contradiction. If you want to be taken seriously Softy, at least make some effort at writing proper English.

I would like to ask you though if you would be so kind not to start a flamewar, because it is entirely offtopic and you are only dragging this topic down. I'm not trying to be a wannabe moderator here, but if you persist I'm going tot have to call a moderator on your behaviour.


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Ijin
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08/18/11 11:20 AM


Re: Reason for the unimaginable nature of God
Post: #114724 / Re: Morkulv #114722
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This forum has no moderators, however i did send a report on soffty about his behaviour and actual doings here.

So it will be depending on his judgement that soffty either takes it down a notch or that he is kicked off, either way, i think more then just us have had enough of thesethings, since indeed with all this flaming and denying and lying the actual matters of the posts become supressed.

And that is something wich isn`t supposed to happen.

So from here on let`s continue with what dattaswami wrote on jealousy.

The fact that such a thing will allways be created even if it is in the slightest or even unwanted.

I say this is true, why?
we people are not perfect beings, jealousy and other such things are constantly created, however it is up to the person himself to be in control over it, or to be in control over himself, even if the jealousy oozes out from him.

As i allread told before i am an energy user, in terms jealousy is also supported by an energy along with a mental part, since jealousy is not an energy, it is a state of mind.
However states of mind can be easily influenced by energies.

Same as how one would have to be in control over his own energy at least in order to even partake in spiritual work, don`t you agree?

watching the world fall


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Goldenserenity7
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08/18/11 11:36 PM


Re: Reason for the unimaginable nature of God
Post: #114735 / Re: Soffty #114698
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I do agree with Soffty on this...we all have ego. Even people who deny having ego have an ego.


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Ijin
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08/19/11 09:31 AM


Re: Reason for the unimaginable nature of God
Post: #114736 / Re: Goldenserenity7 #114735
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Well i never said i didn`t have ego
In fact i said that i have plenty of ego.

It just isn`t dominating my lifestyle

watching the world fall


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Goldenserenity7
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08/20/11 00:01 AM


Re: Reason for the unimaginable nature of God
Post: #114740 / Re: Ijin #114736
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Oh no no no Ijin...I was not talking about you, just simply stating that I believe everybody has an ego.
There really are some people out there that truly believe they are free of the ego, but I was not pointing fingers at anybody in specific.



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Morkulv
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08/20/11 08:09 AM


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Re: Reason for the unimaginable nature of God
Post: #114743 / Re: Goldenserenity7 #114740
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Ofcourse everybody has 'ego', but this has nothing to do with the discussion at hand, and its just another one of Softy's distractions to put the blame on us for not agreeing with him. Its simply childish behaviour and thats why we are against it.


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Ijin
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08/20/11 08:23 AM


Re: Reason for the unimaginable nature of God
Post: #114744 / Re: Morkulv #114743
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Well i like to note on this ego thing a bit more.

See since there is so much discussion about it and let`s be honest that there is just a downright fear towards it.
You get stuck with demonizing the subject.
I don`t know why people fear this ego so much.
It`s not like it has arms and legs or some mental hack and make you into a puppet or something.

Since let`s be honest most people here believe in the soul and thus our bodies to basically be means of transport.
If there would be ego then where would it reside?
Your soul? or your mind?
And if such, wouldn`t it be able to infect the soul? or just the mind?
But what if you have your mind under control aswell as your soul?
Wouldn`t it then come down to an alchemic use of the soul and the mind along withj the body?
And to be honest even with the ego there, if you have control, then ego is not that much of an obstacle.

So when you treat yourself with fear out of fear for the ego, thus something you can accomplish by yourself, then in a way aren`t you stopping your own progress spiritually rather then gaining thefull understandment by having at least used it, or ofcourse when you have control over it and control over yourself in general?

But enough about ego, it simply doesn`t scare me.

But yeah imagine this then, when you say or think of the title: god.

Can you tell me what just happened to you, when you read the sentence?

watching the world fall


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Morkulv
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09/07/11 03:54 AM


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Re: Reason for the unimaginable nature of God
Post: #114934 / Re: Ijin #114744
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Getting back on topic, I think if you look at the world of art you will find that many have their own imagination of what 'god' is.

Usually these people describe god in very simular ways though: back in the old days people would say that god was a bearded man in the sky looking down on people (no, I'm not being sarcastic here, you can look at old paintings to see for yourself). Then later on people would say that god lives in outer space, and nowadays with 'new age' beliefs gaining more popularity people often describe god as a more abstract figure that lives outside space and time.

You see whats happening here? As time progresses, we find out more about the universe and envirement around us, and since it is already proven that there is no bearded god figure to be found in neither the sky or in outer space, religious people have to revise their religious teachings to keep up the illusion.

Thats basically the gist of religion.


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Gerrit
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09/08/11 10:41 AM


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Re: Reason for the unimaginable nature of God
Post: #114942 / Re: Morkulv #114934
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Interesting take. So, do you reject the thought that there may be any intelligence behind everything?

IMHO, in the beginning there was just energy = God. This energy got dispersed = big bang. To create evolution. (It's not whether it was creation OR evolution, it was creation AND evolution ). So, of course the concept of a God being an old bearded guy on some cloud is a bit childish... but IMHO we are all part of God and when the universe comes to an end, we return to the unity - yet separation is more an illusion as we are truly still One. But it's a good and needed illusion so we can make the experiences needed to grow as a soul.


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Ijin
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09/08/11 02:40 PM


Re: Reason for the unimaginable nature of God
Post: #114943 / Re: Gerrit #114942
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Well i like to see it more as seperates within a construct of a single one.

If you know what i mean.
However with both our statements it wouldn`t mean that the intelligence wouldn`t be there.

Often with big bang stuff they talk about a pure energy wich finally won the battle with 1 more matter part more then anti matter part wich resulted in the expansion, basically all there is here came from one single particle of matter.

That is the scientific version.

Basically when you overlay the scientific and then the spiritual, rather then the religious point, and even when you take those into consideration the religion part soon falters in the comparison, however some points are ofcourse valid.

But then if that is god, then god is us aswell, since if all came from this 1 particle of matter, then we essentially are one as you said.

It`s just that we became individual parts of the larger organism.

I`m working for everyone`s future dammit >.<


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Morkulv
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09/08/11 03:38 PM


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Re: Reason for the unimaginable nature of God
Post: #114946 / Re: Gerrit #114942
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It all depends on interpretation I guess. To me, there is no reason why energy hás to be defined intelligent, or why the universe has to have been created by a devine being. Ofcourse having said that, there is ofcourse no way you could absolutely proof that there ís no higher being either, even if its highly unlikely that there is to me.

I personally take no shame in admitting that I don't know everything. To me, thats what keeps science going and that is part of the joy of finding new discovery's, and new sollutions to our problems.


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Gerrit
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09/08/11 11:34 PM


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Re: Reason for the unimaginable nature of God
Post: #114948 / Re: Morkulv #114946
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I don't know everything either. No human being does, never has, and never will. Not as a human anyway. The reason why I went from atheist to believing in the existence of a God is that this world is too perfect. The balance of the right conditions for life on this planet is so delicate, that I find it actually harder to blieve that it is all just a coincidence, as science says, how life developed all the way to intelligent beings. However, furthermore I trust more the information I receive when I channel, than what scientists say, as they are mere humans like you and me. Unless someone can convince me that what I receive is mere fantasy - but I want to see how they can prove that with the vast number of confirmed correct information passed on. How could I - and other mediums - "make up" correct information over and over again? But that is getting off-topic here anyway... but this source of information also keeps speaking of a God as an intelligence behind the universe...


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