Religion & Beliefs Thread views: 4625
 
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Joanne
Member
05/27/01 04:09 PM


Re: Jesus - did he or did he not bring peace ?
Post: #11165 / Re: gkmail #11163
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Dear gkmail;

Well, that is so sweet of you! Thank you for the wonderful compliment. I never knew that some have long hair, but your anecdote of spending more time with "God" and less time with frivolous thinking in appearance makes wonderful sense to me! Do you know what I think when I think of a Guru? I think of the movie "G" with Eddie Murphy! lol

Love, Light and Peace
Joanne


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gkmail
Member
05/28/01 04:07 AM


Re: Jesus - did he or did he not bring peace ?
Post: #11225 / Re: Joanne #11165
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Joanne,

lol....Eddie Murphy movie ! Yes, Indian gurus have have long hairs, and some have hairs touching the ground ! Stock up your shampoo inventory if you go for that, though......lol

Have a good week ahead !

GK




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Renato
Member
05/28/01 06:36 PM


Re: Jesus - did he or did he not bring peace ?
Post: #11253 / Re: gkmail #10956
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Dear GK,

According to the Spiritist Doctrine Lord Jesus is the Pure Spirit in charge of Planet Earth and Humanity.

Everything and every being is in constant evolution. Spirits are “born/created” when the soul, already individualized of a high order animal achieves free will and responsibility, being, therefore submitted to the Law of Causality.

The spirit of Lord Jesus was “born/created” in exactly the same way as ours and only reached perfection after having lived thousands of lives in increasingly subtle worlds, as we all will. When He reincarnated on Earth 2,000 years ago He was already Pure and came as a messenger.

When Lord Jesus was asked which prayer should we direct to God, He taught us to pray to “Our Father”, not to “His” Father. When He resumed all the law, He taught us we should first love God with all our heart and then that we should love our neighbor with the same intensity we love ourselves. His resume of the Law includes no indication as to our having to love Himself in a way different from how we should love any other neighbor. Lord Jesus did not teach anything opposing such simple and true concepts.

Sectarism is the second stage in the evolution of love, the first being egoism. Sectarian people are still dwelling in the “my” illusion and that’s why they cannot admit any path different from the one they have chosen.

Spiritism is non-sectarian. Our motto is “Outside charity there is no salvation”, that’s to say, no one can evolve alone.

Not only Lord Jesus but also all messengers before and after Him know Humanity very well. They are like mothers and fathers teaching their children, with the only difference that they never loose their patience. They come and teach us the same lesson, as many times we need until we learn.

Much Peace,

Renato





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Joanne
Member
05/29/01 02:17 AM


Re: Jesus - did he or did he not bring peace ?
Post: #11274 / Re: Renato #11253
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Dear Renato;

Oh, that is so beautiful and warms my heart. It reminds me of a quote I read a few weeks ago and used a post-it note on my monitor as a reminder:

God gives me peace and I long to share it -
With Christ's gospel message I'll go;
I'll speak of His grace and joy that He gives me
Till He comes, then world peace we'll know.

Again, you grace our monitors with loving, truthful, words my friend, and I enjoy reading them each and everyone one of them. Thank you Again my Dear Brother Renato.

Love, Light and Peace
Joanne

Edited by Joanne on 05/29/01 02:17 AM.




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gkmail
Member
05/29/01 04:45 AM


Re: Jesus - did he or did he not bring peace ?
Post: #11281 / Re: Renato #11253
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Dear Renato,

Thanks very much for explanation. Because of the special circumstances (and the angel come onto Mary, and I think there were one or two more like that in the Bible) that Jesus was conceived. It fits very much into the alien theory.

We, as adults, should be able to guess, what 'come onto' mean. No disrespect here, though. In fact, holy.

And, in Genesis 2, verse 6 (from my memory), it talks about sonS of God coming DOWN to earth and PICK girls they like, MATE with them, and give BIRTH to many great men of the days. Now, 'great' is a subjective word, but the other descriptions are pretty factual, wouldn't you agree ?

Jesus WAS a mixed-breed. I think few would argue with me on that one. Meaning...he is only partially human. Mary's embryo was used, yes, but where do the other 'half' came from ? ...The angel...according to the Bible !

No wonder the Bible is so fascinating.

All said, I do find a lot of good teachings in the Bible itself, just as I find many other good teachings in the Koran, Buddhism scripts, ....actually, I would like, one day, when I can sit down quiety, to create a Comparison Table to compare, point by point, the topics mentioned in the different religious doctrines. But even without doing that, you will agree that they are all alike on subjects such as peace and love, right ?

I would say Jesus is the most sensational religious figure of all. Raising the dead, walking on water, turning water into wine....David Copperfield may do the latter two, but raising the dead ..... whoa,,.. let's see what Mr. Copperfield has to say on that one !

Jesus = a sensational birth + miraculous deeds + sensational messages + a sensational death !

Renato, it is very comforting to come from you that we all are travelling on that path and will get there sooner or later. But, isn't it a bit strange that throughout history, how many billions if not trillions of souls have come, gone, re-come, ..... And all this time, only this guy Jesus could do what he did (if his deeds were real and without exaggerations) ?

All failed except one ? Jesus ? Then either he is really 'special' or we are all VERY VERY VERY slow learners when compared to him ! We have Mozart, Einstein, Picasso....., they have all their specific talents, ... but Jesus, ...what can I say.... more divine intervention, from birth to death ?

What went wrong with us ?

What went right with Jesus ?

GK






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Renato
Member
05/29/01 12:58 PM


Re: Jesus - did he or did he not bring peace ?
Post: #11306 / Re: gkmail #11281
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Dear GK,

I think it is unfair to compare David Copperfield with Lord Jesus. I would rather compare Lord Jesus with other Pure Spirits like Lord Buddha and Lord Krishna.

I don’t have by mind all spiritual traditions from other creeds but I am sure Lord Buddha and Lord Krishna are reported to having done the same so-called miracles that Lord Jesus did. Any Pure Spirit, according to our belief system, has a moral ascendance over Nature Spirits and has a Free Will, not only relative to actions – like we do – but also to the effect of those actions. Being so, They have full control over nature's elements.

As I said in my last post ALL spirits will reach perfection – become Pure Spirits – some time in the future. Nothing, therefore, is essentially wrong with us or right with Lord Jesus. The only difference is that He has already reached perfection and we are still very far from it.

If we examine, with a good heart and a well balanced reason, the lives of other so-called saints and holy people in any religion tradition, we will see that some of them were really much more advanced than us and they, too, could do some actions that our culture calls miracles. Please read any book about Sai Baba or about any other person respected as a holy being, incarnate or not, and you will see what I am talking about.

Just a final comment. As far as I know, David Copperfield is an illusionist, not even a physical effects medium. Being so, I wouldn’t try to compare him to any Pure Spirit. It is unfair for him.

Much Peace,

Renato





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gkmail
Member
06/05/01 08:13 PM


Re: Jesus - did he or did he not bring peace ?
Post: #11464 / Re: Renato #11306
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Dear Renato,

Your familiarity with Jesus has led me to pose the following question to you again, quote from my previous posting regarding Jesus:

And, in Genesis 2, verse 6 (from my memory), it talks about sonS of God coming DOWN to earth and PICK girls they like, MATE with them, and give BIRTH to many great men of the days. Now, 'great' is a subjective word, but the other descriptions are pretty factual, wouldn't you agree ?

Jesus WAS a mixed-breed. I think few would argue with me on that one. Meaning...he is only partially human. Mary's embryo was used, yes, but where do the other 'half' came from ? ...The angel...according to the Bible !

My main questions is this though, if Jesus did what he did because of this cross-breeding, between the Holy Spirit/Angel and Human (Virgin Mary), then for those who is not of this nature, what are the chances of coming close, not to mention surpassing, him ? We all understand that if you are born without a leg, it is an illusion to become an Olympic 100M dash champion, competing with those with two legs, right ?

So, if Jesus was conceived under such special circumstances, what are our chances ?

With David Copperfield, my feeling is that at least I am seeing him live and well. The point I want to bring out is, the similiarity between him and Jesus is ---- nobody knows how they did it except themselves !

Thanks for the recommendation with Sai Baba's book. I actually was in India last Christmas, and visited Pushka, Rishikesh, and a couple other holy places. I even visited Maharashi (founder of TM)'s founding site. The energy there is indeed VERY special. The place is now deserted but I could 'see' images of people meditating there.

And a waiter I talked to in a good restaurant said he witnessed Sai Baba materializing some power himself. He is quite believable. If I had more time, I would travel down south and visit his ashram and meet him personally. Next time, perhaps.

I also read a book call Entering the Circle yesterday; by a Russian psychiatrist now living in the States. She talked about the Mt. Altai in Siberia and a place called Belovodia, the origin of all major religions, including shamanism, buddhism, christianity,..... I find it very convincing. She were there herself. A bit like Shirley Maclain's "The Camino", except more scientific. Her truth resonates.

GK








Edited by Gerrit on 06/05/01 08:13 PM.




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Renato
Member
05/31/01 02:33 PM


Re: Jesus - did he or did he not bring peace ?
Post: #11493 / Re: gkmail #11464
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Dear GK,

“And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, that the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they [were] fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.” (Gen 6:2).

My interpretation of the above quote is as follows:

All spirits begin their journey simple and ignorant and they reach perfection though many reincarnations after acquiring, to the full potential, well balanced doses of wisdom and goodness. The spirits that first began to reincarnate on Earth were spirits that had to face hardships in order to learn the lessons they had failed to learn in a better world (the Garden of Eden allegory). Being so, they were still very far from perfection. The High Order spirits that care for Humanity are loving and indulgent fathers/mothers and they decided to send teachers to help humanity to evolve. Such spirits were not necessarily Pure Spirits but were surely spirits that no longer needed to reincarnate on a planet as gross (not subtle) as Earth. Coming to Earth as teachers, they had to live normal lives, marrying and having children.

As a matter of fact, what happened then keeps happening nowadays.

I disagree with you as to calling Lord Jesus a “mixed breed”. Lord Jesus is a Pure Spirit. When He came to reincarnate on Earth as a messenger He chose another Pure Spirit to be His mother, Lady Mary. Pure Spirits have full control over nature’s elements. Not only “the other half” but the full body of Lord Jesus was completely controlled by Him since conception. He showed his ability to materialize and dematerialize His body many times when He vanished from within the crowds and when He appeared physically to His disciples after His death on the cross.

As I said before, we are all bound to reach perfection, with no exception. After becoming Pure Spirits we will all – with no exception - be able to do everything that Lord Jesus can do now or could do while incarnate.

That’s what I believe.

Much Peace,

Renato




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gkmail
Member
06/01/01 04:27 AM


Re: Jesus - did he or did he not bring peace ?
Post: #11566 / Re: Renato #11493
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Dear Renato,

But you would agree with me the fact that Jesus was born without a human father, would you ?

How many of us around can be born that way ? Not many.

What I am saying is, this is like Superman from Kryton telling us, "Sure, you can learn to fly just like me !" . That is all very positive, but what I am asking is, "is that TOO positive ?"

With that kind of conception, wouldn't you say Jesus is genetically different from the rest of us ? No human sperm was involved, fact, right ? So, what kind of 'sperm' was used and if not 'sperm', what was used ?

OK, if not mixed-breed, how does a different breed sound ? IF I get to talk to him one day, I guess one of my questions to him would be, "What percentage of human were you when you were born ?" Do you think he would say 100% if he is being honest ?

Maybe the way scientists are studying genetics these days would shed some light on this in the future. Maybe some aliens would come and give us a few hints ......have to stop or this would sound like a conversation between Captain Kirk and Spock in Star Trek.....Kirk, 'Hey, Spock use your non-earthing side and communicate with me telepathically',....Spock, ' I just did that, didn't you get it ? Opoos, sorry, forgot you are 100% human....."

GK




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Renato
Member
06/04/01 07:46 PM


Re: Jesus - did he or did he not bring peace ?
Post: #11886 / Re: gkmail #11566
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Dear GK,

I think we are arguing with different conceptions.

According to my understanding, the genetic factor has no influence at all in the evolution of a human being. No influence at all. All the evolution of a human being is stamped on its perispirit, which generates the cells and the biological systems and keeps them working.

As to Lord Jesus’s evolution, therefore, the genetic factor has no meaning. His body was not genetically generated either by Joseph or by Lady Mary. Lady Mary had to be a Pure spirit too in order not to disturb the purity of Lord Jesus’ physical body.

He was, on the other hand, 100% human. His body was exactly equal to the body of any of us. The only differences were in the fact that his cells and his biological systems were perfect and failure proof and in the fact that he had full control over His body. Lord Jesus reincarnated on Earth due to His love for humanity and due to the fact that He is the Pure Spirit in charge of Humanity. He is not only human, but also a model to be achieved by all humans.

Advanced yogis, who are closer to perfection than we are, show a good control over their bodies and many mystics of all times have been reported to use their bodies in such different ways that people understand them as miraculous men and women. We will all be like Lord Jesus when we achieve perfection. And we will all be able to dematerialize and materialize our gross bodies at will. When that happens, sexual life as a means of reproduction will be absolutely useless.

Such is my understanding, at least.

Much Peace,

Renato




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gkmail
Member
06/05/01 03:25 AM


Re: Jesus - did he or did he not bring peace ?
Post: #11935 / Re: Renato #11886
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Dear Renato,

I am using a common sense approach to tackle this phenomenon.

When you gave the information, you appeared to very sure, e.g. Jesus is 100% human, despite he is 'manufactured' without using a human sperm.

Do you believe that or know that as a fact via your angels/spiritual guides ?

There is a very important difference between believing and knowing.

To me, knowing is far better than believing. I find that if I believe in something, I just keep wondering if what I believe is true. But if I know, then my mind stops wondering, or wandering ! Only then am I truly happy.


GK




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Renato
Member
06/05/01 02:31 PM


Re: Jesus - did he or did he not bring peace ?
Post: #11984 / Re: gkmail #11935
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Dear GK,

My belief system is the Spiritist Doctrine. Knowledge is information that we acquire, organized and processed in a way to make it useful in a certain moment of life and in a certain context. Wisdom is the percentage of knowledge that stands true throughout uncountable reincarnations in any situation. The teachings of the Spiritist Doctrine are wisdom.

Does a soldier cease to be a soldier when he is promoted to be a General? Does a priest cease to be a priest when he becomes Pope? Does a human being cease to be a human being when it is promoted to be a Pure Spirit?


Much Peace,

Renato





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Amethyst
Member
06/05/01 02:46 PM


Re: Jesus - did he or did he not bring peace ?
Post: #11985 / Re: gkmail #10956
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As many of you know, I label myself a Gnostic Christian... this does not mean that you do not believe in Jesus or many of the things in the bible...it does mean however that you search for the "truth" in those things in the Bible...Gnosis meaning "To know"... I look back at the Bible(yes, here I go again being somewhat redundant for which I try sooo hard not to do...LOL)...and there is much that must be brought forth if we are to truly understand what the Bible is saying, No, I'm not expert, but, I think the most obvious thing to think about is the time period and how "tales", "myths" and "stories" were perceived back then....there were stories made up to explain away things...there were stories made up for those who could not read or write...You have to think of the general intellect of the people.... even how naive soem were back then...thus gives us many of the "tales"....

Today we have science...and obviously our intellect has grown.... we question things now, let's face it, if the President simply stood up in front of America and said that he could walk on water, we'd all question that, correct?

Jesus in my opinion was indeed a very evolved soul... yes, he was human....but I truly think he has not been back here...Some of my beliefs are that he was Essene, he even studied Buddhism for a bit, he healed with Reiki, and the shocker is that I don't believe he died on the cross.... in other words...I think he may have been near death, it was hard to tell back then...I mean even in the early 1900s guys they were still mistakenly burying some people alive not knowing they weren't dead!!! Anyway, as I ws saying, Jesus when he came to earth was highly evolved... he had many lessons to teach...many of the things he said and did are better understood by us today....they are things even some of us do...know to be truth...etc,.....was he created through emmaculate conception? I truly don't think so...but it made for a good story... Jesus was special so they had to create a special way that this person would come to be....it was the "human mind" rationalizing the things he did...

I do believe too that he did try to bring Peace....that he did bring messages and cared a great deal for people...he healed, he tried to guide... but he was as human as you and I are.... back then he was trying to shed the light on what we here at this forum are learnign and evolving to now....only bakc then they had to make it a "mythical" type of story.... Not to mention and repeat my thought on the Bible, but, it is written by man and there are 20+ versions of the Bible...each altered by man and his own religion....

To believe in the bible totally means that one believes that God is a bit "vengeful"...that if you do wrong he punishes you....this in my opinion is nothing more than the "churches" tactic of getting you to conform....by fear....

OK..I'lls top before I say again what I have already said 20 tiems here before...LOL....

Anyway...Just my Opinion....

Love,Light and Hugs..
Amethyst

(\o/)
 /_\ Life is but Water, the Soul is the Stream



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Amethyst
Member
06/05/01 02:51 PM


Re: Jesus - did he or did he not bring peace ?
Post: #11986 / Re: Amethyst #11985
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I guess I'd also like to add...that I do think Jesus does intend to come back, as the bible states...but I think it's going to be when we are all making this transition we all anticipate...

Love, Light and Hugs...
Amethyst

(\o/)
 /_\ Life is but Water, the Soul is the Stream



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Renato
Member
06/05/01 10:30 PM


Re: Jesus - did he or did he not bring peace ?
Post: #12061 / Re: gkmail #11464
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Dear GK,

We are walking in circles. I have already answered this question of yours.

Just two things I forgot to say. Lord Jesus is not the only spirit to have reached perfection. Lord Krishna and Lord Buddha are Pure Spirits, too. And there may be others, though unknown to our poor perception. No spirit ever surpasses the Pure Spirit status, since this status means that a spirit has developed its full potential and all spirits have the same full potential to develop.

Much Peace,

Renato





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gkmail
Member
06/06/01 01:07 PM


Re: Jesus - did he or did he not bring peace ?
Post: #12166 / Re: Renato #12061
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Dear Renato,

Best wishes to attaining the Pure Spirit status ASAP.

Then you will know, and can drop the word 'belief' from your vocabulary for good. ....lol

After that, everything you said will become a belief system for others around, who is still working their way to Pure Spirit.

Whoa...who knows, you can be the next Lord Renato ?......

But then, that would be a pretty lonely job on earth, would it ? Because, who knows you are Lord Renato by then ?

Well, I guess if they don't know, they can be your believers ?

GK




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Renato
Member
06/06/01 02:21 PM


Re: Jesus - did he or did he not bring peace ?
Post: #12174 / Re: gkmail #12166
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Dear GK,

One of the characteristics of a Pure Spirit is its humility. I am still very far from getting there (some thousands of lives). You may be closer than me, who knows?

Much Peace,

Renato




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laloba
Member
06/06/01 04:26 PM


Re: Jesus - did he or did he not bring peace ?
Post: #12179 / Re: gkmail #10956
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Hello Everyone.....
After reading this entire thread.......I had some ideas of my own........and sent them to a friend....who suggested I post them here........so here goes!....

I really don't know where I stand concerning Jesus....I do believe he
existed, and that he was/is a devine spirit, who can guide us if we chooses.

....but I am not quite sure in what capacity! I have been giving the
emaculate conception allot of thought.......and came up with this...(please I mean no disrespect here)!

Mary was a "virgin" ?.....but in the Hebrew text virgin meant: "untouched"......untouched by what is my question? and it also meant
"pure".......another ambiguous term.......pure of what? and the word pure was also a word to describe "love" (a certain kind of devine or holy
love)........Keeping this in mind I find it hard to buy into the virgin concept with out futher investigation, the Bible just does not contain enought information
for me to base my decision.......So I have referred to othere sorces as well......... So that leaves me with two other thoughts.........Jesus was
indeed a human, conceived by humans, through a pure heart, mind and soul............or he was conceived by an alien ( thought to be an
Angel)..........Or.......conceived by an Angel. anyway........what ever his origin is.........there is the fact that he was indeed alive and a great Holy Man...................I have information gathered by Tibetan Monks....other books.......( including Reiki books......that tell anohter story...........
At an early age.....as early as possibly four.......... Jesus was trained by the Essenes......

The historical birth of Jesus was in 7 BCE.....
in 5 BCe the "Three Wise Men"came form the Ease (India) to seek the reincarnation of an Enlightened one.

They took Jesus and his family, to Egypt and India.
in about 27 to 30 CE Jesus returns to Jerusalem for 2-3 years.
in 46 to 49 CE Jesus returned to India 16 years AFTER the Crucifixion!

110 CE the death of Jesus in Strinagar, India. was reported and recorded.....the legends say he lived to 120 years of age ( not unusual fro that time).

German writer and researcher Holger Kersten in his fascinating book "Jesus lived in India" states that Jesus was a reincarnated Bodhisattva,(Savior)

The child Jesus, would have been two years of age at the time and in danger from Herod who had received prophecies of an Essene leader newborn
who would challenge Roman rule, and ordered all first born children that were about that age to be killed! There was an Essene Buddhist type monastery that existed at Qumran near the caves, that later housed the Dead Sea Scrolls. As a
mystical order and possibly even a Buddhist order, the Essenes were aware of
the prophecies. The teaching of the Essenes included concepts of: reincarnation and karma, the immortality of the soul, compassionate peacefulness and simple living. Not much different than todays Buddhist concepts.

When they recognized the Tulka they sought out the child Jesus, or perhaps he was even summoned by the Essenes who recognized him. (The Wise Men) then took the boy and his family East with them, The child was raised and trained first in Egypt and then in India. With access to Buddhist Mahayana and Vajrayana training, which included sacred healing methods.
He then returned to Jerusalem as an adult , a Buddhist adept,and he was known as the Bodhisattva....wich means.... (Savior)!
Holger Kersten goes on to trace the remainder of Jesus' life, providing logical argument for his survival of the Crucifixion. And there are numerous mentions of Jesus as, "Issa" or "Yuz Asaf" in the
Buddhist Sutras and as, "Ibn Yusf" in Islamic writings. Most of the sources describe his past and/or the crucifixion scars, making the identification of Jesus unmistakable!

Jesus survived and lived a very long and well respected life as a holy man in India.

The graves of Mary,his mother, Mary Magdalene and Yz Asaf (Jesus)are know and considered places Holiness and of worship. In Mari,Pakistan (Mary, mother of Jesus) was burried, Kashgar,
India, (Mary Magdalene) was burried , and Srinagar, India, (Jesus)was burried. The sites are
clearly labeled.! and Kersten cites twenty one documents that describe Jesus' residence in Kashmir, India, after the crucifixion.
As you can guess , much of the information has been suppressed by the Christian church, which reflects more the teachings of Paul than the
Buddhist-influenced Jesus. The historical Jesus is a wonderful and fascinating figure!
His presence and influence in the Reiki's history is vindicated also.....( a story for another
time) Any way.... Most of what is know in the Bible of Jesus is lost form Christian doctrine through the intervention of Paul, who seems to have
reinterpreted Christ's teachings. As did King James for his own political reasons, (mostly of which were to control his subjects). So by the fifth century, the crucial concepts of rebirth and Karma were dropped from Church and Jesus'Healing methods were also lost to the developing West! The healings and teaching remaine active only with the Buddhist adepts, who use tem but do not publicize its existence, even today!
Well I guess that is enough for now......lol........
Will read more and write you again!

Blessings
Laloba









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laloba
Member
06/06/01 04:32 PM


Re: Jesus - did he or did he not bring peace ?
Post: #12183 / Re: gkmail #10956
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By the way.....
I was also told...( and knew) that my findings are not far from what Edgar Cayce thought about Jesus. So I guess I am in good company!
What I have posted is not meant to disrupt anyones belief systems.....it is only meant as another view and stimulating thought........I mean no disrespect in the information. just more food for thought !
Blessings
Laloba




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Joanne
Member
06/06/01 06:22 PM


Re: Jesus - did he or did he not bring peace ?
Post: #12187 / Re: laloba #12183
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Dear Laloba;

Do I have your permission to print your posting up? I find it quite interesting and I want to read it at my leisure out on one of my walks in the woods....

Love, Light and Peace
Joanne


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