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Spiritualnewbie
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07/01/13 09:16 AM


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Partner seeks extra-martial fulfilment
Post: #118625
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Hi,

This is a difficult post to write, and I would be very grateful for any help and advice.

I have been happily married for 20 years and love my wife dearly and she does me.

A few months ago we both discussed about things we could do to keep our relationship active.

Rightly or wrongly, we discussed about introducing someone else into our relationship and considered taking this forward. My wife even got as far as making friends with someone and has been in regular contact. Indeed, they both chat regularly and have met but there has not been any sexual contact.

Now, I met someone purely by chance who embraces spirituality (and is unaware of what my wife and I planned to do). The more she explained the more in-tune the concept of spirituality became to me. So much so, I have come to realise that this experimentation is all about ego and not about listening to my Higher Self. As soon as I started listening to my Higher Self I knew this was not the right path for me.

The difficulty I now face is that my wife and her friend have become emotionally involved and want to continue seeing each other. Indeed, my wife has indicated that they would like to initiate sexual contact.

Although I am comfortable with my own spiritual belief, this is not something my wife embraces - which of course is completely her choice. I also feel responsible for allowing the three of us getting into this position with me going along with this initially before embracing spirituality.

Of course there is a question of marital vows, but part of me thinks I am being selfish for denying them their opportunity to follow what they believe is right for them.

The real question I have is should I impose my spiritual morality on my wife and her friend, or as spiritual belief is personal should I take the stance that we follow our own 'chartered lives' and that if this is my wife's destiny then it is her decision to make and not mine?

I therefore remain comfortable within my own spirituality as it is not for me to judge my wife or her friend.

I am sure people will think why am I allowing this to happen. It isn't so much that I am, but I did agree this to begin with and don't feel I have the right to tell someone what to do with their lives - even if I am married to that person.

There is a question of how I will deal with this within myself. I am not a jealous or judgemental person, and I know my wife will not leave me. As long as my wife and her friend are happy with their morality then why should I stand in their way?

What I want to make sure is by allowing this it does not contravene my spirituality in any way by actually being too selfless.

Edited by Spiritualnewbie on 07/01/13 01:17 PM.




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Amy
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07/01/13 01:23 PM


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Re: Partner seeks extra-martial fulfilment
Post: #118626 / Re: Spiritualnewbie #118625
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Hi - You seem to have answered your own question, since you don't want to judge your wife or her friend so imposing your own spiritual morality would be doing just that!!

I admire your balanced, considerate stance.

"We are not rich by what we possess, but by what we can do without" (Immanuel Kant)


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Spiritualnewbie
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Re: Partner seeks extra-martial fulfilment
Post: #118628 / Re: Amy #118626
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Thank you so much for taking the time to post and for your very kind words.

More so as it is very emotive what I'm trying to convey.

While I'm sure like me you don't condone infidelity, I am so very grateful that you understood my viewpoint.

This has given me the peace of mind I needed so I could not necessarily advocate my wife's decision but accept it.

As you can imagine, I've not given her the 'green light' to continue but have advised her that she follows what her instinct (Higher Self) tells her she should do with her 'chartered life'.

Even though she doesn't embrace spirituality she does appreciates the concept

All I feel I can say is that I won't be judgemental of their actions, but by the same token have no desire to know what goes on between them on the understanding that they are safe and considerate of each other. And of me.

Some may believe I am weak by allowing this, but I actually think I am being strong!

Thank you once again.

Edited by Spiritualnewbie on 07/01/13 02:50 PM.




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Amy
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07/01/13 03:33 PM


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Re: Partner seeks extra-martial fulfilment
Post: #118629 / Re: Spiritualnewbie #118628
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I hope you find peace (and eventual harmony) with whatever the future may bring. I believe life unfolds as it should (this is more often seen retrospectively). I wish you well.

"We are not rich by what we possess, but by what we can do without" (Immanuel Kant)


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Serenity01
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07/02/13 00:44 AM


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Re: Partner seeks extra-martial fulfilment
Post: #118630 / Re: Amy #118629
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I have a different opinion, it would'nt work for me, I envy your open-mindness though.


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Risingtide
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07/02/13 02:26 AM


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Re: Partner seeks extra-martial fulfilment
Post: #118632 / Re: Amy #118629
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I think the question is really what your wife's intention is. Emotional involvement spells trouble in the future no matter what you think or she feels at the moment.
If she is happy with you, what does she find in him which you cannot give. I am not talking about sex here. If it is a purely sexual relationship with him and no-strings attached then that is fine, but to keep it that way may be easier said than done.

You both have to clear what each one wants, and then find a way to achieve that without destryoing your relationship. Casual or long-term sex, with one or more other parners, is quite OK as long as you both agree and are determined to handle issues as soon as they arise, and then take the necessary sex.

I think it is a mistake to introduce spiritual complexities into what is essentially a socio-psychological situation. Arguing from a spiritual viewpoint is imo escapism.

Maybe the 2 of you should look at something like Tantric sex, or speak to a sexologist, or consider a swinging club where the danger of emotional involvement may be less because most of the people are already in an existing relationship.


Amituofo
"Life knows its needs"



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Spiritualnewbie
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07/02/13 03:27 AM


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Re: Partner seeks extra-martial fulfilment
Post: #118633 / Re: Risingtide #118632
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I can't thank you all enough for you help, advice and support.

I can honestly say we are both very happy with each other and would say this would be a 'no strings attached' relationship.

I certainly take your point about long term implications. Now, both have given assurances that should deeper feelings start to develop then they'll break it off as my wife's friend is also married and there are children in both relationships to consider.

I therefore have to place trust in both of them, which I do.

I also agree that as spirituality is an individual belief then it would be inappropriate to argue from that viewpoint.

I am not looking to justify my wife and her friend's actions, or seek approval, but what I do need to have is inner peace within myself.

As my wife needs trust, I don't think she would be prepared to go to a swingers club. More so on her own, as it is not something I can do.

I also know enough about my wife's friend to know he respects her and considers her feelings and at heart he is kind and caring. So I know my wife will be safe with him.

As I say, I am not advocating this but feel I had a large part to play as I agreed to go down this road initially. What has changed is that I no longer feel this is right for me. However both my wife and her friend do.

Maybe I am being too selfless, but I do not feel I have the right to tell someone what they can and cannot do with their lives. I believe it is up to each individual to do what they consider is right for them.


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BlackbirdRising
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07/02/13 09:21 AM


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Re: Partner seeks extra-martial fulfilment
Post: #118635 / Re: Spiritualnewbie #118633
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I've been having a hard time reading and following this post because it hits home. After 17 years of faithful marriage, my (now ex) husband invited me to have an extramarital affair with an old friend,not condoning it but as you say, accepting that this was something I needed that he couldn't provide. When I took him up on it, he threw me out of the house, took the children, won absolutely everything in the divorce, and slandered my name in a letter to every possible employer he could reach within my career field, making me look insane, tainted and scarlet, and himself look righteous, a martyr, and saintly in the process.

Knowing the pain that your wife is going thru and the fear she faces as she makes choices about her future that will affect her marriage and therefore her entire existence, I have to ask, how will you react when she does what you invited her to do? You said one sentence out of everything that sticks out the most.

I am not looking to justify my wife and her friend's actions, or seek approval, but what I do need to have is inner peace within myself.

The only difference between you and my ex-husband so far is that you did not use your wifes name in the title of your post. Partner seeks extra-martial fulfilment

I know you must feel like you are being betrayed and you need validation that you are in the right by choosing to not follow suit. You did not legally slander her, which if you are concerned at all, if you decided to do that, will destroy her ability to work and provide for herself and she will be unable to begin again and make a fresh start, unless by some miracle she has the money to go to court and get the slander letter/email expunged. But you did make yourself out to be the righteous one and her to be the scarlet one.

I don't think you are selfless. I think you are hurting, and that you took the only available option to save your marriage, and it backfired on you. You have the chance to do the right thing when the time comes, and I'm sure it will. You can treat her publicly with dignity and respect, as the woman who took care of you for half your life, and honor that by not mentioning anything about what you invited her to do, by not making her look bad in the eyes of the world.

That takes bravery and faith. Two things my ex-husband did not have. Thankfully God knew what would happen to me before I did, and prepared a way for me so that I would not be alone in the financial slaughter that was to come after my ex-husband publicly slandered me and murdered my career. I will probably never have the money to get his email expunged in court, so I get to wear my scarlet 'A' all my life. I do so with Light in my heart, my faith in God is my strength. I pray for my ex-husband everyday for hm to be forgiven of his crimes against me and our children. To the world, he is the selfless saintly father who provided for his mentally unstable wife, and whose wife ran off with another man and abandoned her children. Because I do not slander him legally, no one knows the truth, and he gloats in the outcome.


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Zippo
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07/02/13 10:00 AM


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Re: Partner seeks extra-martial fulfilment
Post: #118636 / Re: BlackbirdRising #118635
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Ok. So, I could be way off here, but I'm kind of thinking that you should ask your wife not to do it. Obviously you are not ok with this. You can not just behave as if you don't have any say whatsoever here. What you need is an open, honest conversation with your wife. You need to assess whether or not either of you are still in love. You need to tell her what you're feeling even if it is very ugly and even if it contradicts what you previously did. It sounds like you're a decent guy and it sounds like you're pretty confused.

If you were my husband I would just want you to ask me- point blank- what I really wanted.

You should think critically about what this is saying about your relationship. Because all of this, to me, indicates two people that are not very happy together.

Now, I do not believe that infidelity is impossible to get past. In fact, in my own experiences, this is something that has been overcome in my own relationship.

But the bigger issue is really whether or not you two should be together. Because you are not doing anyone (her, her friend, your family) any favors by carrying out the motions and forcing your love to work.

The only savior you have here is your honesty. This really isn't about a spiritual moral code. This is about you having the courage to communicate honestly and openly with your wife.
Even if it makes you sound unfavorable, as BlackBirdRising said, the answer is not to pretend you're ok with it only to realize later that you are not, and then explode in anger.

You are obviously not ok with this.

And hey, maybe I'm an ignoramus. You can take what I'm saying or you can leave it.

I wish you all the best and I will send some positive vibrations your way.

And sincerely:
There is nothing that true honesty and courage cannot heal.

Edited by Zippo on 07/02/13 10:03 AM.




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Tawmeeleus
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07/02/13 06:14 PM


Re: Partner seeks extra-martial fulfilment
Post: #118638 / Re: Zippo #118636
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Hi,
I think you should read 'the whale' post and think about the message. Trust your instincts because no one else can tell you what to do. You and your family have to live with this and no one else. You know the answer you are just not trusting your instinct!!!
take care
Tawmeeleus

Edited by Tawmeeleus on 07/02/13 06:21 PM.




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Risingtide
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07/04/13 00:52 AM


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Re: Partner seeks extra-martial fulfilment
Post: #118652 / Re: Tawmeeleus #118638
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I believ that in relationships such as a marriage the equation should be 1+1=3

If it is 1+1=2 or even 1-1=0 then what is the point of the relationship?

This means that unless you can happily be part of whatever arrangement you plan to have you should say that you changed your mind, that you thought you would be OK with it and now find it troubles you.

If she loves you and wants to remain with you she will consider what you say and make a decision accordingly. We cannot always have what we want.

To ask them to break it off when emotional involvement arises is like asking a person half drunk already to stop drinking. Decisions should be made before the horse is out of the stable. Once it is out it is much more work to get it back in.

Amituofo
"Life knows its needs"



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Mathew
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07/04/13 10:14 PM


Re: Partner seeks extra-martial fulfilment
Post: #118661 / Re: Spiritualnewbie #118625
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G'day Spiritualnewbie

My wife & I have discussed the same thing & we both agreed if it eventuated that one of us found another partner that would be acceptable even to the extent of sexual contact.

It is of egotism to think we own our partners but it’s even more egotistical if we stop our partners connecting with others in the same way they have connected with us, no one has the right to dictate how many times someone else falls in love in actual fact I feel the more times one falls in love the more spiritually connected one can be however lust is a different kettle of fish!!.

Are we that egotistical to stay by force into monogamist relationships against our own & partners will? I would happily share my wife with others as I couldn’t think of a more giving unselfish act of my spiritual virtues but most people can’t detach themselves from fixated attachments so they could never see this as being a part of their spiritual world but I can.

Love
Mathew


Acceptance of all leads to true spiritual awareness.


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Risingtide
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07/05/13 00:25 AM


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Re: Partner seeks extra-martial fulfilment
Post: #118665 / Re: Mathew #118661
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Are we that egotistical the we think we can have new emotional-sexual relationships while suspending our existing one for a short time but keeping it on the backburner for when things don't work out?

Does anyone think that being married is just a safety net to fall back onto when the other relationship comes to an end? And what kind of input does his wife have into it?

Some of my thoughts:
Realtionship wise, although not physical health-wise, a series of one-night stands would be probably be far safer than this.

Unless they can do everything they want to do in your presence you are all asking for trouble. That is why swinging or 3 and 4-somes would be far safer than what is envisaged here.

All emotional considerations have to be put aside and you all have to decide on what is right, and if you agree that your wife can have other men, how this can be achieved in the safest manner.

If she has not yet had menopause you'll have to decide what will happen when contraception fails, assuming that contraception is used.

Amituofo
"Life knows its needs"



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Mathew
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07/05/13 01:56 AM


Re: Partner seeks extra-martial fulfilment
Post: #118667 / Re: Risingtide #118665
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G'day Risingtide

If as you say suspend your existing relationship you didn't have a true relationship in the first place, you shouldn't have to suspend anything & of course it doesn't have to be sexual as well.

Your obviously talking about fixated attachments, drop the fixated attachment with your partner & see what happens, if we are fixated onto anyone thing it denotes conflict, no true spiritualist can have such fixated attachments.

Your are obviously only talking about lust not love here, there is a huge difference. When we bring spirituality into the arena even if it's from one partner this changes things greatly, it would turn a spiritually aware person into a spiritualist because one you are all giving & two you have shown emotionally you have no fixated attachments. To me to deny & entrap a partner into marriage vowels isn't spiritually minded but quite egotistical & self centered which has very little to do with the true essence of spirituality.

If a said person had a child by another partner being spiritually minded one would be accepting, all accepting in spirituality is fundamentally very important to being a true spiritualist otherwise your not a true spiritualist.

Love
Mathew


Acceptance of all leads to true spiritual awareness.


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Risingtide
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07/06/13 03:30 AM


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Re: Partner seeks extra-martial fulfilment
Post: #118685 / Re: Mathew #118667
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As I have written in an earlier post, imo to bring spirituality into this before one has resolved the socio-emotional aspects of and with everyone involved, including the other wife, and possibly children, is escapism.

Amituofo
"Life knows its needs"



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Tawmeeleus
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07/06/13 06:08 AM


Re: Partner seeks extra-martial fulfilment
Post: #118687 / Re: Risingtide #118685
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Hi Risingtide,

I brought spirituality into the thread because Spiritualnewbie was talking about 'spiritual morality'!!!

I may be wrong but I thought spirituality was the reason for the post. Not wanting to impose his beliefs on his wife.........

IMHO you cannot separate spirituality from the rest of your life it is not just something you do on a Sunday. It is a way of life.

everyone to their own!!

take care
Tawmeeleus



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Risingtide
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07/06/13 10:31 AM


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Re: Partner seeks extra-martial fulfilment
Post: #118699 / Re: Tawmeeleus #118687
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Is there something like a "spiritual morality"? Doesn't spirituality say that there is no good and bad, no right and wrong? IOW there no morality in spirituality. There may be in religion. There definitely is in psychology although they might claim that they psychology is valueless.

No matter what, the poster clearly has values and feelings arising based on these values. The conflicts have to be addressed headon on on that level.

One of the problems with trying to be spiritual about it is tha neither his wife nor her prospective sexual partner are willing to work at that level. The conflicts will persist and sooner or later someone will pay for it.

So much of spirituality crumbles when it hits real life.

From a practical viewpoint the wife-lover relationship is unlikely to have a future.


Amituofo
"Life knows its needs"



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Tawmeeleus
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07/06/13 01:08 PM


Re: Partner seeks extra-martial fulfilment
Post: #118703 / Re: Risingtide #118699
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HI,
Spirituality is an inner path, so I think the only person who can answer the question about 'spiritual morality' is the poster himself.

take care
Tawmeeleus


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Mathew
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07/06/13 08:28 PM


Re: Partner seeks extra-martial fulfilment
Post: #118706 / Re: Risingtide #118685
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G'day Risingtide

You seem to be just looking at this in a more Christian sense of morality way instead of looking at this in a more holistic way like sticking to one's wedding vowels no matter what, I wished my parents didn't stick to their vowels but they did so so my siblings & I paid the piper, I'm still carrying the physical scares today.

If one partner is spiritual & the other not then any sort of strife is going to be bared by the spiritually aware person which will hopefully make them more spiritually aware however if children are involved the said spiritual person will or should think of them first & foremost however they too can benefit spiritually through such actions.

To give of one whole self including one's partner when spiritually aware is a true sign of spiritualism, a selfish egotistical person will think of all the social & emotional implication first then won't do it however a person who isn't egotistical & selfish will just give without question especially when it makes the other partner happy.

I'm sorry Risingtide christian wedding vowels have a lot to answer for, it was harmful to us as kids & is highly egotistical & selfish in that no one owns anyone but Christian weddings vowels say different!!!

Love
Mathew

Acceptance of all leads to true spiritual awareness.

Edited by Mathew on 07/06/13 08:30 PM.




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Risingtide
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07/06/13 11:40 PM


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Re: Partner seeks extra-martial fulfilment
Post: #118708 / Re: Mathew #118706
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I wasn't aware that swinging, 3-somes and partner swapping which I consider to be safer practices are allowed in Christian morality and Christian marital vows.

The OP writes, and this is the crux of the matter in this case:
quote:

The difficulty I now face is that my wife and her friend have become emotionally involved and want to continue seeing each other. Indeed, my wife has indicated that they would like to initiate sexual contact.


IOW, they will want to spend time together and they will need money to do that as it is unlikely that they would find sitting on a park bench looking into each other's eyes for a stolen half hour every second day satisfactory in the long run. they will want to enjoy other activities together, then they will want to have sex. Where? In the car? LOL More likely in your home. Why not, as you are accepting their liaison. Are you prepared for that? You want to be he cuckold? Nothing wrong with being a cuckold as long as everyone knows what game is played and what the rules are.
You will take the children on outings and find to try answers why uncle Tom now visits your home so frequently.

When I had the opportunity to have an affair with a woman who was very persistent in pursuing me I did take her to dinner once. By making a decision beforehand to not have sex with her I also avoided this trap of increased emotional involvement.
Then I looked at the implications, timewise and financial, and concluded that certainly I could not manage these factors so that everybody who is involved could even be remotely satisfied.
And I found no justification for depriving my wife of the part of the disposable income available to us so that we could have a good time exchanging bodlily fluids.

The big picture here must include his wife. Nothing was said about her, so I assume she is the innocent party onto whom the news of her husband having an affair with another married woman, and that that woman's husband knew about it, even condoned or encouraged it, will be sprung unexpectedly. I don't find that scenario spiritual at all. For me it is actually quite repulsive.

I must say, looking at the scenario I get quite nauseated now.

If the 2 lovers go ahead she must be told beforehand what they want to do and she will have to agree to this arrangement as well. Everything else is deception.

Amituofo
"Life knows its needs"

Edited by RisingTide on 07/06/13 11:55 PM.




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