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Mathew
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08/05/13 09:15 PM


Seeing Past our Limited Consciousness
Post: #119263
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Because of our various belief systems we take on we tend to have a hard time perceiving & understanding past our perceptions or conscious understandings which is fair enough because how is anyone supposed to perceive past what they consciously donít understands, however in this lies limitations. Recently on a forum site it came up that science is limited, I replied science is only limited by our thought process, if we think itís limited it will be limited like anything else. Consciousness is unlimited & for ever changing & science is a part of this collective consciousness so how can science be limited as it is forever changing as well?

Science like any other belief or conception is limited by its understanding, that is the only limitation they have which is brought on by our limiting thought process but what if we didnít have to understand to perceive consciousness beyond our understanding? To understand anything we have to have a perception of what we are about to understand first which gives us our perceived conscious understanding , itís our perception in the first place that gives us something more to understand & itís this perception that also gives us what we are going to understand & in the way we are going to understand. For an example some atheist canít or wonít understand faith because they perceive it as being blind, they canít see past their conceptions in the first place to be able to understand how faith works & someone who is religious canít see how a God canít exist. In both cases it is impossible to see past their conception/belief, this is whatís limiting not what we canít or wonít understand or even perceive beyond our conscious understanding.

What I am saying here is one doesnít need to understand to perceive & in actual fact one needs to perceive first to understand, itís our perception that is limiting which makes our understanding limited, just because we donít understand doesnít mean itís limited as itís only limiting within our perception not within the collective consciousness I believe. What are we able to perceive within our imagination? This is how unlimited the collective consciousness is, are our dreams limited? They are only limited like our imagination to what we perceive not what actually is or can be. How many of us understand our dreams but it doesnít stop us remembering them thus perceiving them? Well in actual fact it does seem that way. A lot of us donít remember our dreams because we donít understand them because they are too farfetched however this again is brought on by our limitation to what can be, we just canít perceive such things happening in the first place therefore our understanding of such things canít exist thus we donít remember our dreams, conscious life is no different.

The collective consciousness has no limitation because it has no set beliefs or concepts to limit it, science is limited because itís only perceives within in its understanding, if it has no understanding it canít perceive beyond what it understands at any given time. If we looked back a thousand years ago could have scientists perceived what modern day science was going to be all about? It could only perceive in what it understood at that time but if scientists of them days allowed themselves to perceive firstly before they had an understanding things could have been quite different & in actual fact at times this did happen in the science & religious/spiritual fields, how could seers see what they did without an understanding of what they were seeing & how did miraculous inventions & discoveries appear out of seemingly nowhere? It all comes down to what we perceive or imagine, not everything needs to be understood first because in this lies limitations which is what a lot of scientists are doing today limiting themselves to understanding first instead of being able to perceive & imagine before one has an understanding in what they are perceiving & imagining.

Our conscious understanding is limited by our perception which is brought on by our beliefs/concepts, once we realise this the skies the limit or I should say in this case while referring to the collective consciousness the sky is unlimited by what we perceive/imagine, the more limiting we are in our perception the less consciously aware we will be & the more non-limiting we are in our perception/imagination the more consciously aware we will be, it all stands to reason.


Acceptance of all leads to true spiritual awareness.


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Zippo
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08/06/13 01:54 AM


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Re: Seeing Past our Limited Consciousness
Post: #119269 / Re: Mathew #119263
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I like where you're going with this. One thing to consider could also be that science is limited in a more mundane sense. By this I mean that there are some that feel that the current state of science lacks an honest concern for disproving long held theories. Another simple limitation of current research would just be that since research is often funded by groups with economical and political agendas, the honesty of inquiry could be compromised. This is a totally different angle of perception than the one that you are discussing, which is considering science's existence in terms of the conscious collective. I like what you said about releasing our limitations and beliefs/concepts, and this is actually exactly what arguably needs to happen in the scientific world based on things the few things I have heard/read. I know that my boyfriend is currently reading a book called Science Set Free and he's really enjoying it.. It is exactly about releasing limitations and such surrounding science.

It is interesting to think that the collective conscious has connected both of us in the sense that we are each thinking about whether or not science has limitations and then discussing it here. I sometimes wonder if the collective conscious is bigger than the ideas/experiences that bond us, or if it is only made up of the experiences/ideas that we share.
Who can say!


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Mathew
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08/06/13 05:53 PM


Re: Seeing Past our Limited Consciousness
Post: #119283 / Re: Zippo #119269
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G'day Zippo

Yes science within it's concepts is limiting itself to a certain range because it has fixated attachments to old ideological concepts.

I get on science forum sites now & again as well & I tell them straight out that their dogmatic within your principles & concepts because they won't look outside the square because of their fixations to one or two ideological concepts. I'm straight forward & to the point as I don't like beating around the bush, you either say it how it is or you don't say it at all.

This is like being fixated to one or two concepts & saying this is the be & end all nothing else can be which is very small minded in my view which is like God or some science discovery is the be & end all.

I love being direct especially to science minded people because they accept direct talk where a lot of spiritually minded people don't. Like I said I don't like beating around the bush so I find it hard saying it how I find it to other spiritually aware people.

What I do find strange is I can be direct to a scientist but I can't to a lot of spiritually aware people, who's more accepting & truthful here? Spiritually aware people are suppose to be accepting & understanding but I'm finding science minded people are more so, who's more spiritually connected? Scientists if they realise it or not become connected to the collective consciousness as well & you will find an open minded scientist will be very accepting & understanding as you will find in a truly connected spirit spiritually aware person as well. The reason for this I feel is they have no fixated attachments, they are all accepting.

My idea of the collective consciousness is like one big brain, we are all connected to this one big brain that we call the collective consciousness & once we become connected to this consciousness synchronicity shows itself I believe.

Love
Mathew

Acceptance of all leads to true spiritual awareness.

Edited by Mathew on 08/06/13 05:54 PM.




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Risingtide
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08/07/13 11:07 AM


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Re: Seeing Past our Limited Consciousness
Post: #119286 / Re: Mathew #119283
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quote:

What I do find strange is I can be direct to a scientist but I can't to a lot of spiritually aware people, who's more accepting & truthful here? Spiritually aware people are suppose to be accepting & understanding but I'm finding science minded people are more so, who's more spiritually connected?


I think you can say that to science people because they will dismiss what you say out of hand. Spiritual people have a vested interest in their kind of spirituality and will be inclined to defend it, especially if their kind is quite dogmatic.

Amituofo
"Life knows its needs"



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Mathew
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08/07/13 05:49 PM


Re: Seeing Past our Limited Consciousness
Post: #119291 / Re: Risingtide #119286
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G'day Risingtide

quote:

Spiritual people have a vested interest in their kind of spirituality and will be inclined to defend it, especially if their kind is quite dogmatic.



Yes this is the problem, defend, this denotes ego but they will also denounce the ego at the same time which doesn't make sense. Science minded people can be highly egotistical & dogmatic & at times will, like you say, dismiss what you say out of hand. Spiritually aware people are more sensitive & can become defensive because of this but in doing so become non-accepting & spirituality to me has everything to do with acceptance.

This is how becoming fixated into one or two ideological concepts can limit oneís own awareness to these specific concepts & gives one an opposing force however if we take on no set fixated concepts but accept all for what it is just another concept we have no opposing force therefore were not limited in thought & awareness I feel.

Love
Mathew

Acceptance of all leads to true spiritual awareness.


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Risingtide
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08/08/13 00:26 AM


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Re: Seeing Past our Limited Consciousness
Post: #119297 / Re: Mathew #119291
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The person of science has, or at least tries to as much as possible, dissociated themselves, including any ego present, from the object of study. A spiritual person cannot take this option.
The preconditions for discussion are therefore unequal.

Spiritual ideas are not 'just another concept'. They have to be true in the sense that they are working, i.e. that they are right, for the believer. To be wrong repeatedly and consistently will result in figurative if not literal death.

To overcome these difficulties is a challenge and I am afraid not too many people manage it successfully.


Amituofo
"Life knows its needs"



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Ryunkin2
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08/08/13 05:47 PM


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Re: Seeing Past our Limited Consciousness
Post: #119301 / Re: Risingtide #119297
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You've made a valid point and why most debates between those who believe in the unprovable and those who believe in science are futile. What the scientist with his bias toward what seems logical at the moment, doesn't understand, is that what is unprovable today, may not be unprovable in the future. 120 years ago, science couldn't prove the existence of germs, because it didn't have the tools to do so. My hope is that in the future, science will cast away its bias toward the here and now and learn enough about what we term as the spiritual and take the doubt out of belief that we all feel at some time or other. And no, my name isn't Thomas.

Edited by Ryunkin2 on 08/08/13 05:52 PM.




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Mathew
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08/09/13 01:09 AM


Re: Seeing Past our Limited Consciousness
Post: #119306 / Re: Risingtide #119297
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G'day Risingtide

Most spiritually aware people try to dissociated themselves from the ego as well because like scientific studies spiritual practices can be hindered by the ego as well. Like everything else they are of the consciousness or God if you like so no they are very similar it's just they use different deductive reasoning.

Believe it or not when a scientist is at their best they are just as connected than a spiritually aware person at their best to the collective consciousness , it all connects to the same source but is perceived quite differently by the said person because of the their different perception of awareness.

I'm sorry but I can see very little difference between science & spirituality but of course both spiritually aware & science orientated people will because of their awareness in one or the other, in other words we limit ourselves to a certain awareness point & can't possibly see past this point to notice how everything is connected & alike in many ways.

Love
Mathew


Acceptance of all leads to true spiritual awareness.


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Mathew
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08/09/13 01:18 AM


Re: Seeing Past our Limited Consciousness
Post: #119307 / Re: Ryunkin2 #119301
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G'day Ryunkin2

This thread is about showing how limiting our awareness points are in the science & spiritual fields. Science has been stuck on logic but when it starts using other means as well for evaluating things will change & have in fact already changed like with quantum physics for instance. Quantum physics allows one to think & evaluate way outside the square & other science techniques will derive from this as well so science isnít limited just like the collective consciousness isnít limited, we just perceive them to be through our current awareness point of understanding.

Love
Mathew


Acceptance of all leads to true spiritual awareness.

Edited by Mathew on 08/09/13 01:22 AM.




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Risingtide
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08/09/13 03:29 AM


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Re: Seeing Past our Limited Consciousness
Post: #119310 / Re: Ryunkin2 #119301
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quote:

My hope is that in the future, science will cast away its bias toward the here and now and learn enough about what we term as the spiritual and take the doubt out of belief that we all feel at some time or other.


Be careful what you wish for.

There is this great desire in e.g. the Reiki community to get a scientific explanation and thus be accepted in the medical community.
The danger I see is that once that happens Reiki will be in no time be removed from community participation and will become another field for the experts, of course associated with substantial costs in terms of money.

A weekend course to learn the basics of Reiki will become a thing of the past. So will dedicated study and application to become a Reiki master without going to university or other long schooling. It will be time consuming and hellishly expensive.

I think this scenario, in terms of scientific acceptance and resulting economic repercussions, will apply to all spiritual practices.

Alternative practices have to stay true alternatives to the established ones. If not they will lose their character and become the domain of a priviledged few only.


Amituofo
"Life knows its needs"



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Mathew
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08/09/13 04:44 AM


Re: Seeing Past our Limited Consciousness
Post: #119311 / Re: Risingtide #119310
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G'day Risingtide

A very good point I never considered myself Risingtide that's why many heads are better than one!!

Love
Mathew

Acceptance of all leads to true spiritual awareness.


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Tanemon06
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08/10/13 00:16 AM


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Re: Seeing Past our Limited Consciousness
Post: #119314 / Re: Mathew #119311
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What about the idea that a genuinely expanded consciousness should further enable a person? Okay, this could be in science, social abilities, arts, green-thumb gardening, child rearing, psychotherapy, or a real range of other things.

Have a look at this video, as I think it offers an example of what I mean:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwDPMqH2suY


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Mathew
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08/10/13 01:10 AM


Re: Seeing Past our Limited Consciousness
Post: #119315 / Re: Tanemon06 #119314
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G'day Tanemon06

This sort of thing will be very hard for authorities to regulate but who really knows but maybe they will use the collective consciousness as well to do just that.

The collective consciousness I believe has no set rules or guide lines, it would be nice for a change to use it in a nice way more often than not.

Love
Mathew

Acceptance of all leads to true spiritual awareness.


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Risingtide
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08/10/13 01:18 AM


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Re: Seeing Past our Limited Consciousness
Post: #119316 / Re: Tanemon06 #119314
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Master Zhi Gang Sha, the biggest nutty healing practitioner I have come across so far. His healing methods are crazy. If you think that Reiki, Quantum Touch, Aromatherapy, homeopathy, etc., are scams and bogus therapies you must read up on Master Sha. They are so outlandish that even my mind boogles with incredulity sometimes.

Having said that, I know from personal experience that they can have a tremendous effect on one's life.

But, to link up to my previous post, check out his website.
Physical Body Soul Mind Body Healing and Transmission system $500
Emotional Body Soul Mind Body Healing and Transmission system $500
Mental Body Soul Mind Body Healing and Transmission system $500

Although seemingly removed, he had Dinine Healing Chants for, wait for it, just about every single organ and body part. Let's assume one had a digestive problem, there would be one for the mouth (saliva formation), the oesophagus, the stomach, the large intestines, the small intestines, the rectum, the liver, the gall bladder. The list was miles long and each one sold for IIRC $150. Working from memory, this may not be a 100% accurate reflection but you will get the general sense.

The poor people whose only hope for more wellness is traditional or alternative healing practices will never be able to avail themselves to Dr Sha' services, except for the occasional free offerings.

How then can we expect a broad based and genuine expanded consciousness when only a few percent of the population has access to what they need to learn and see to achieve that?

From what we can see is that there is a trend that as soon as something becomes successful, in terms of money or popularity, it becomes unaffordable to the people who would benefit most.

Maybe it is a self-protective measure in that a person can get overwhelmed by the increased demands on time and services, but for internet supplied goods this cannot possibly apply as it is all automated.


Amituofo
"Life knows its needs"



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Mathew
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08/10/13 06:02 PM


Re: Seeing Past our Limited Consciousness
Post: #119317 / Re: Risingtide #119316
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G'day Risingtide

This is funny because while reading your post I was agreeing with you here & then it came to me maybe the poorer people at the soul level don't wish to be healed in this way, it wasn't meant to be because they haven't the resources to become healed. It's all got to do with our chosen path.

I don't think anyone has the right to interfere with someone else's life path & that is exactly what this bloke would be doing if he wasn't charging so much. We must remember it's all about the soul not the human self & it's the human self that is teaching the soul here not the other way around.

This of course is going to be hard for any human self to adhere to or understand because of our emotions. Of course we want to be healed at the human level but do we at the soul level, if we haven't got the funds to do so it wasn't meant to be obviously.

This is saying maybe they are not meant to be healed by such a person but maybe someone else or even themselves.

Love
Mathew

Acceptance of all leads to true spiritual awareness.


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Risingtide
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08/11/13 10:42 AM


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Re: Seeing Past our Limited Consciousness
Post: #119318 / Re: Mathew #119317
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I really cannot agree with such views.

Some obviously malicious entity has stacked the board against some people and the decive used is to deprive them of the resources they could use to lift their lives up?

It is one thing to offer something to people at a reasonable price an another to try and exploit them in an unfair manner.

Rampant capitalism in the service of soul growth while ignoring, if not depriving people of their physical and mental needs? What next?

Whatever issues one has with etablished religions at least they occasionaly provide services in one form or another to those who are close to totally broken.

A god, or whatever entity there is, who has the capabability and intelligence to organise the 'world', and who organises it in the way you describe, will have to be destroyed so that such evil work can come to an end.


Amituofo
"Life knows its needs"



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Mathew
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08/11/13 04:31 PM


Re: Seeing Past our Limited Consciousness
Post: #119319 / Re: Risingtide #119318
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G'day Risingtide

Yes I agree with you it's wrong that people use this kind of gift for such reasons however wrong is only a humanistic perception, look at this through non-human eyes & you will see it quite differently.

This kind of profanity can even reach us at the soul level only because of our humanistic attachments which we can take with us from life to life however it's still only human based.

This is one draw back in being able to look at things differently than just through human eyes which gets me into a lot of trouble with others at times because I'm then judged to being this that or the other not saying you are doing that here.

What are we doing when we see this sort of thing? We are judging just like we judge others of being of the ego or judgment itself, how would one know if one wasn't judging if one didn't judge oneself so? It's all quite hypocritical but that is what human perception gives us, hypocrisy!!

Sorry Risingtide I know I'm quite odd to converse with but I'm really not being insensitive especially at the human level but I see things differently which has greatly helped me with my disability or was it the disability that gave me this ability to see things differently in the first place!!

Love
Mathew

Acceptance of all leads to true spiritual awareness.

Edited by Mathew on 08/11/13 04:33 PM.




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Jcorb
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02/18/17 10:17 PM


Re: Seeing Past our Limited Consciousness
Post: #125984 / Re: Mathew #119319
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Hi Matthew
I am glad, if I understand you correctly, that you are not blaming God for all he woes of the world. Whilst I live a much more privileged life than nine tenths of the world ie I have a job, enough food shelter education and access to health and therefore have time to blog here and say thank you God for giving me the opportunity to find my way consciously back to spirituality out of freedom and love. If there was no suffering or resistance or separation from the sprit world we would have remained spiritual automata not potential spirits of freedom and love.

Also, I probably missed the point but what is it that spiritually aware people are denying?

I do know that science only measures and investigates matter. That is all it can do because it is unable to incorporate spirituality into its understanding.
A sad irony is that this started because in 869 AD the Roman Catholic Church decreed spirit as heretical. The tripartite understanding of Humananity and the universe was reduced to soul and body. At that time church and state were not as separate as now but it led to a bias towards materialism in science which has remained ever since.
It is also interesting to note that scientists are using spirituality to investigate matter through thinking which is a non physical activity. They will never make consciousness arise out of matter i.e. thinking it not a brain secretion. Thinking itself as an activity which lays down new neural pathways when new skills or ways of thinking are activated. So matter is a result of spiritual activity.
Also, Spiritually aware people need to understand that without a physical brain as a reflecting apparatus for thoughts, the first steps as a Human towards conscious spirituality would not be possible.
A non physical perception is an observed thought which is the beginnings of pure thought and first stages of entry into the spiritual world.
thanks Jcorb


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