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Mathew
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06/18/13 06:33 PM


Atheism-Extremist Belief System or Not?
Post: #118388
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The following is from a forum site discussing atheism & spiritualism; itís worth a look in how some atheists truly see the world sadly enough. I was of course at my best telling it how I see it straight up & to the point.

http://www.linkedin.com/groups/Atheist-Spiritual-1523037.S.243164554?qid=a39d27bd-44d7-4dbf-a7e1-36574294d90e&trk=group_most_popular-0-b-ttl&goback=.gmp_1523037

Gíday Paul

I see reading the other posts your still Mathew bashing , well thatís OK because that is who you are when someone disagrees with you & questions your belief obviously, this is a normal reaction in anyone with beliefs & beliefs in isms.

You donít get it Paul, itís the black & whites that have caused us so much conflict within the world because there is a yin & yang, atheism & religious fundamentalism & so on & so on, one would have to be blind not to see it & that is the problem, we only see a difference but we donít understand the difference . Nothing is just white or black however for a better understanding of these whites & blacks within each other we need to separate them to bring them together again through understanding of what each element is made of, notice them as black & white to start with.

For an example, a female psychologist will interact with a male client differently to a female client, one is black the other white but by doing this from the start she can delve into the black & whites of the said person a lot better than if she from the start couldnít see them as just black & white male & female to start with, comparing atheism to religious fundamentalism is exactly the same in identifying them as black & white to start with & then from this one is able to see their similarities & dissimilarities, black & whites within each other.

It would seem to you there is no black & white which leads to ignorance & misunderstanding because by not seeing them as black & white from the start you have no hope in hell in going on to understanding them & then & only then can one bring them together. This is exactly like some spiritually aware people do these days, they only see the ego & judgment as negative & by doing so misunderstand & miss itís positive purposes in human life. We are told to rid ourselves of these so called profanities from the start but to reach true awareness spiritually & subconsciously one needs to understand the differences of the black & whites of these things first & once we do this the ego & judgment automatically become less of a threat to us as they become null & void after a while but you canít force this like so many are doing before you understand the negative & positive attributes of these black & whites in everyday human life. We are not born divine we need to rediscover the divine within us to understand itís purpose within life itself.

I wonít converse with you again Paul for a number of reasons.

LOVE
Mathew

Also:

Why are most atheists also dogmatic with their views towards people like Jesus, Buddha & so on & so on as they obviously existed? Yes I know people can be delusional but come on!! I would like to add that scientists have proven it to be psychologically beneficial to perform in certain religious rituals even when singing hymns so even though Iím not religious myself religion (theism) still has itís place in society but of course an atheist probably wouldnít or couldnít see this because of their beliefs but people like me can.

ďExtremism has no balanceĒÖLove Mathew

ďA threat is an illusion until we believe in one thing instead of everythingĒÖLove Mathew

ďFaith in man is faith in oneself for without faith in oneself one will never have faith in manĒÖ.Love
Mathew

ďTo believe or not to believe that is not the question, the question is, are we able to believe, that is the questionĒÖÖ Love Mathew


Acceptance of all leads to true spiritual awareness.


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Ijinfuhen
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06/19/13 03:45 PM


Re: Atheism-Extremist Belief System or Not?
Post: #118395 / Re: Mathew #118388
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Well let me step in right here and now.

I am not an atheist, obviously since i am here on this forum, but on the other hand i am one.

Spirituality to me is not connected to any belief or faith, it comes from experience and experiences, doing and then seeing the results.

Atheism is simply a lack of faith, since if you look faith up in the dictionary you will find something interresting.

Faith requires no proof, and there where proof cannot be given it is useless for someone dabbling in science.

So you could say i`m partially atheist with a spiritual sense of things.

Extremist atheism does not exist to be frank.
Extremism is something wich is standalone by itself, but when faith comes into play, or simply an idea of something and it is not dealt with in ballance, then it all becomes bad.

But atheism does not have that, it simply says: there is no proof for that wich you are saying, thus i will not use it as a basis to explain the reality of things.

Even if you throw away any and all gods from our systems of belief and conduct in reality, then it still is not extremist or extremism.

I realize that there is much at stake for the spiritual person when atheism comes into play, because it basically says that we simply do not exist as we claim ourselves to exist.

How many gods have we seen here by now, how many spirits and how many people claiming to do whatever, all of that would be swiped from the table and you would be left with nothing but yourself.

This i realize the importance someone may feel to go down fighting be it an atheist or a satanist.

So i understand the act of fighting something like athism comes from a sense of self preservation, because most people in spirituality have built their existance and personality around the beliefs they have either obtained or created.

Like i once explained about the cornerstones of one`s perception of reality.

But most people also forget something important, when fighting atheism you basically fight proven science.
Even if proven science would be wrong, the majority of the world seems to agree with scientific discoveries and incorporate them into their lives, whereas others close off science altogether because it threatens their beliefs and lifestyles.

If you follow science more thouroughly you will come to understand that spirituality is not a disproof from science.

As time goes by and new discoveries are made spirituality actually gets stripped from belief systems and further strengthened with scientific proof.

Stuff about aura or electrical fields of the body, the mental aspect and the brain aspect, many people close their eyes at the first sign of trouble.

I have been confronted many times by my failings of beliefs wich i now have shed and adopted a scientific method within the spiritual self.

So hence i am not a real atheist, but also not an opposite of that.

So atheism is not extreme, it is not wrong and it is futile to fight, rather spend your time and effort helping it into the right directions.

Since the only people fighting atheists, are those with a belief system of sorts.
And when self preservation comes looking around the corner, it results in extreme human behaviours.

So think about those things next time you hear anything that goes against that wich you believe or wish to be so and you`ll find yourself to be a lot less stressed out.

For now nothing and a lot is certain, so good luck in finding truth in that wich is and not dabble in that wich is not.

By the way if you want to know more then it is best to go to youtube, watch some james rhandi, or howard bloom, some other ted talks will definatly help, there is tons of proof out there that tells us at least jezus never existed.

Edited by IJINFUHEN on 06/19/13 03:53 PM.




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Morkulv
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06/19/13 03:50 PM


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Re: Atheism-Extremist Belief System or Not?
Post: #118396 / Re: Ijinfuhen #118395
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Atheism is not a belief system. End of discussion.


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SexyAtheist
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06/19/13 04:18 PM


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Re: Atheism-Extremist Belief System or Not?
Post: #118398 / Re: Morkulv #118396
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I agree, atheism is not a belief system or a religion. It is just a name that applies to the rejection of religion, nothing more.

That doesn't mean you can't be spiritually active as an atheist. There are plenty of spiritual atheists that don't affiliate themselves with any religion.


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Ijinfuhen
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06/19/13 04:20 PM


Re: Atheism-Extremist Belief System or Not?
Post: #118400 / Re: SexyAtheist #118398
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Just like i said, spirituality is finally starting to get a scientific method flung at it.

I am one of such people who has done this for several years now and it has yielded results better then if spirituality was a belief system.


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Tawmeeleus
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06/19/13 04:41 PM


Re: Atheism-Extremist Belief System or Not?
Post: #118403 / Re: Ijinfuhen #118400
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Well good for you that you are not just a character like the rest of us mere mortals.

In my humble opinion spirituality is the search of the inner path and is not against any religion or belief but is a journey within.

A lot of science is still just theory, eg: energy, theory of relativity, etc etc,

Theory comes from the greek word theoria which means contemplation., looking at, gazing at.

To prove logic, existence and science one must first use the premise of logic and existence and science as the present standard of proof.

How can one prove logic, science and existence if all we have is theory?

for instance, energy cannot be created or destroyed no one can define energy not even scientists!
Energy, just is!

There can only be right and wrong if there is logic, if you cannot prove logic then there is only 'just is'

take care
Tawmeeleus


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SexyAtheist
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06/19/13 05:18 PM


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Re: Atheism-Extremist Belief System or Not?
Post: #118409 / Re: Tawmeeleus #118403
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Just to clear this up: a scientific theory is not "just a theory". Gravity is in essence also "just a theory", but it is the best explanation we currently have for it and we take it for granted that (under normal circumstances) what goes up also comes down.

Atheism by itself doesn't have a stance on spiritualism. There already has been plenty of scientific research that shows that meditation for example, is very healthy for your mind. If that is the 'least' people take from it, then I don't see what the big deal is.

Atheism (and scientists) also doesn't claim to have an explanation for everything, which is also a common assumption that people mistakenly make. When it comes to science, logic counts, and when there's a gap in a theory scientists are not afraid to say "I don't know". That to me, is a lot more noble then filling in the gaps with a god that might exist.


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Tawmeeleus
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06/19/13 05:32 PM


Re: Atheism-Extremist Belief System or Not?
Post: #118411 / Re: SexyAtheist #118409
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Well,

I didn't mention God.
Best explanation is still just theory!
I didn't fill the gap with god, you did!
'I don't know' logic, does that count for me?

Edited by Tawmeeleus on 06/19/13 05:33 PM.




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SexyAtheist
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06/19/13 05:48 PM


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Re: Atheism-Extremist Belief System or Not?
Post: #118412 / Re: Tawmeeleus #118411
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Yes I did mention it, because atheism is the lack of a belief. Most scientists in the world are atheists, hence why I said that there is no shame in admitting to not knowing something without filling the gap with a religious explanation. Atheism is the default position to take on these matters.

Why do you think the term theory is such a bad word? A theory is not a downgraded form of an explanation like some people make it out to be. In scientific terms, a theory is something that has been thoroughly researched and tested to be a reasonable explanation of the world we live in.


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Tawmeeleus
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06/19/13 05:57 PM


Re: Atheism-Extremist Belief System or Not?
Post: #118413 / Re: SexyAtheist #118412
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Again,
I never said theory was a downgraded form of an explanation!
My point is this.... God cannot be proven, science cannot be proven.
Neither can prove their point.
Logic cannot be proven either.
If nothing can be proven then no one can prove right or wrong!
Everything is 'just is' to whoever believes what they believe.
There is no wrong or right!
The world we live in, is different to everyone!!!!!



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SexyAtheist
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06/19/13 06:18 PM


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Re: Atheism-Extremist Belief System or Not?
Post: #118416 / Re: Tawmeeleus #118413
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You didn't say that a theory is a downgraded form of an explanation, but you do put it down as 'just a theory'. Why is 'just a theory' not a good enough explanation to you?

You are wrong though. Science by definition means 'knowledge', so saying that it cannot be proven is false. I mentioned gravity earlier. If I throw a pen in the air, do you not think it will come down? Of course you do, that's because gravity is real.

Needless to say, when it comes to this, there is a wrong or right. If somebody claims that gravity does not exist, they are simply wrong for saying so because everybody can observe the contrary. That doesn't mean they are wrong on other accounts and they are not bad people for being wrong, but until somebody debunks the things that we have come to accept as common facts they are wrong.


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Tawmeeleus
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06/19/13 06:28 PM


Re: Atheism-Extremist Belief System or Not?
Post: #118417 / Re: SexyAtheist #118416
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Theory.
theory is based on experiments and experience.
You see the world form your experience, I see the world from mine.
In 'no time' the pen would not come down, but you have never experienced this so you do not know.
I cannot prove that to you because that is my experience not yours.
In the physical world there is gravity to contend with while seeing the world through physical eyes.
When you can see the world without physical eyes then you can see the pen is not even real!!!
That is the difference between science and logic!
If you ever experience this then we can concur.




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SexyAtheist
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06/19/13 06:56 PM


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Re: Atheism-Extremist Belief System or Not?
Post: #118421 / Re: Tawmeeleus #118417
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"A scientific theory is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world, based on a body of knowledge that has been repeatedly confirmed through observation and experiment."

Source: Wikipedia

I haven't experienced the pen falling down? I never experienced pens floating in mid-air under normal circumstances, so based on that I can assume that your pen falls to the ground. Within that context, I can tell you that I have a magical pink unicorn in my closet, but would that make it true just because I believe in it? Experiences differ with every individual, yes. However, there is just one truth and that is one that isn't exclusive to anyone.

I can prove my experience because it confirms to what we know exists in the natural world, and in the natural world pens don't float in mid-air under normal circumstances and gravity is something that can be demonstrated repeatedly. Therefore, I know your pen will always fall.


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Tawmeeleus
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06/19/13 07:16 PM


Re: Atheism-Extremist Belief System or Not?
Post: #118424 / Re: SexyAtheist #118421
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How do you know my pen will fall?

No more than someone being an 'energy user'?

We are all just as evolved as we are.

When you are more evolved, then you can try keep a pen suspended in the air!

the question is this , if you were evolved, would you want to even prove that you could?

Anyone that has to prove anything has a problem in the first place!

take care
Tawmeeleus


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Ijinfuhen
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06/19/13 07:27 PM


Re: Atheism-Extremist Belief System or Not?
Post: #118425 / Re: SexyAtheist #118421
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i Think i explained the no time concept in another post so see that one for the specifics, but within your experience of the world you experience no time, yet in the natural world yourbody still gets older, your cells die off and replace just like any other human being.

In that sense your own experience and the cornerstoning of that within your perception of reality, be it the one within the mind or the one we all share here in the normal physical world or OU (outer Universe) as i like to call it.

I would have to ask you if your no time exists within your mind, or this OU or even within your IU(inner Universe, i can explain these two better in another topic).

The difference is that even if you throw the pen up and you would never see it fall, while in reality the pen has allready fallen, then it would seem like a bad use of your perception of time.

And it is more common then you think.

But yeah you would have theory and hypothesis, in wich a hypothesis would be the construction of a concept, rather then the testing of a concept, in turn theory would be the hypothesis being turned into a theory through rigorous testing and experimentation.

I can give a small example, let`s say for instance that i wouldn`t know that the earth is eliptical, or oval, but my hypothesis on the earth having to be round in order to function would not hold up.
In this case it is the missing of some factors that the earth gets oval like.(water through interaction with the moon`s gravity)
Now as long as i don`t have these factors, but i do register that the earth is oval like, then i can make an hypothesis about why this is so.

Let`s say i think it is because of the solar gravity distorting time and space to the point where our fabric gets slightly stretched, wich ofcourse is wrong, now i start to test this hypothesis.

At some point i find nothing wich could prove my hypothesis, so i start to look for other factors.
And voila thanks to either myself or someone else i get into the hypothesis that the moon has something to do with it.

So i go ahead and test this, now ofcourse this is how the earth gets slightly oval, and the proof found for that makes it a theory.

Since there can be many more factors as to why the earth gets slightly oval, but we now have something solid, the parts of the hypothesis are now proven thus turning the hypothesis into a theory.

I must note that even though einstein made his relativity theory, he also noted that he wasn`t satisfied with it because he felt like he was missing some factors, however this theory in itself complete or not has given us many means into the growth of our knowledge.

So a theory even though you say is just a theory, this just theory is the only thing we have so far.
What lies beyond it, any scientist would tell you: i do not know.

If you ask the same question to someone with whatever faith it is they may have, they will fill in the blanks because their uncertainty requires them to have an answer.
Like in the old days people would sacrifice people by throwing them into the volcano saying: i hope this spilling of life will appease the gods and make sure the volcano will not erupt on us.

Their hypothesis would be that gods control the volcano and throwing in living people will calm those gods down.
Today we know why a volcano erupts, how a volcano erupts, when a volcano erupts.(with close proximity i must add)

Those hypothesi and theories are now transformed into facts thanks to our scientific methods, as incomplete as they may be.

But if you know it all then there is also no room for growth, by claiming you know it all you no longer grow, you close your mind to progress and you become indeed stuck in no time or something like it.

Evidence, proof, the examination of proof and the testing of hypothesi and theories lead to the discoveries of truth and the way things work, if " just a theory" would be enough to stop someone from looking further then there is no way that person could ever be in the position of telling someone else how things work.

So even if the scientific method isn`t complete yet, as it is a continuous process since we interacted with the world, if we are to simply stop conducting science we would either be all extinct by now, or our current civilization no longer present like so many civilizations before us are now gone.

And this brings me to the point where religion bugs me the most.
Since i myself do not mind if you believe in something, it is just that if you make decisions that affect other people who have nothing to do with said beliefs, then you are imposing your own un knowledge upon others.

Like many people working so hard to make sure evolution is not taught in schools in america for instance, or important state matters wich are to ensure the progress of the civilization, that these get halted because some people are too hung up on their beliefs that they do harm other people with it.

Like religion has the highest kill count, personal liberties and freedoms of choice bashed in with a crowbar, just think of how many gay teens have been either killed through this prejudice or that have killed themselves because so many people forced their choices upon them to the point where they would take their own lives.

And that is why i think religion as an organisation needs to die.
Religion is fine within your own little habitat and your own personal self, but never onto another.

And well just look around on the internet, any religious institute or organisation get their hides kicked by the atheist community.

And well logic is simply the mechanics of applying knowledge, it is the combination of the two that bring wisdom.
Thus the difference between knowledge and wisdom as a concept ermerges.

i`m back


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SexyAtheist
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06/19/13 07:27 PM


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Re: Atheism-Extremist Belief System or Not?
Post: #118426 / Re: Tawmeeleus #118424
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@Tawmeeleus

I'm sorry, but I explained this point to you before. I know your pen is going to fall because gravity under normal circumstances is a repeatable procedure. The outcome is demonstrable, unless you change the circumstances.

If you can prove that you can make a pen float in the air, why shouldn't you? You can make a scientific breakthrough. You don't have to do this, but then the issue remains that you're going to have to prove that you're able to make a pen float in mid-air, because by default we have come to understand that pens can't float in mid-air under normal circumstances.

Edited by SexyAtheist on 06/19/13 07:32 PM.




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Mathew
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06/19/13 07:42 PM


Re: Atheism-Extremist Belief System or Not?
Post: #118427 / Re: Ijinfuhen #118395
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Gíday Ijinfuhen

Quite an essay, a lot of thought has gone into this.

Firstly an atheist has a belief that a God doesnít or couldnít ever exist even when proven, you know why because that would make atheism the illusion not the belief in a God or deity so itís no wonder atheists are defensive when more open minded people call atheism a belief. Agnosticism is quite different as they wonít believe until proven otherwise that is why they are called two different things as they mean something quite different, atheism is of blind faith & extremism because even after proof has been supplied atheists still wonít believe, they canít because it would show they are the ones who have been flowing an ism blindly not religion or people who believe in God or creative consciousness.

It is very obvious why atheists will defend their beliefs blindly even after proven wrong, doesnít that sound a little extremist?

Look in the mirror & all around you Ijinfuhen, what do you see? Something which has been created by us & other forces so God does exist so that means atheism was the illusion after all. Everything is a part of God which I prefer to call creative consciousness itís still of a creator which we are all a part of if we like it or not.

Yes I know atheists are right & most of the other people in the world are wrong & have always been wrong obviously, do you know how lame that sounds, you canít really believe this surly but the problem is you have too to be an atheists even if it blindly!! Donít get me wrong Ijinfuhen I donít put all atheist in one basket just the ones who canít see how blinded they are by their beliefs.

Atheists have attacked believers over time but canít prove there isnít a God, this sounds a little extreme to me donít you think whereís an agnostic wonít judge either way because they canít prove it either way so they just donít believe until proven but atheists are more dogmatic & extreme within their ideological principles obviously but of course itís totally impossible for you to see this as atheism would be the illusion then not a belief in God so I can see your close minded point.

Love
Mathew


Acceptance of all leads to true spiritual awareness.

Edited by Mathew on 06/19/13 07:45 PM.




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Tawmeeleus
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06/19/13 07:43 PM


Re: Atheism-Extremist Belief System or Not?
Post: #118428 / Re: SexyAtheist #118426
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Drivel, drivel drivel.

I do not have to prove anything to anyone.
Proof is not important.
What is important is evolution.
We can only know what we know with the knowledge we have at the time we know.
We cannot know what we do not know.
You do not know , you do not have all the answers.
I do not know, I do not have all the answers.
The difference is our experiences.
I can make a pen float , can you?
Well, I can't, but spirit can, through me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
x


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SexyAtheist
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06/19/13 08:01 PM


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Re: Atheism-Extremist Belief System or Not?
Post: #118430 / Re: Mathew #118427
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Atheism is a 'belief' in the same way bald is considered a hair colour. Atheism is a LACK of belief.

Why would atheists defend their LACK of belief, and why should that be considered extremist in contrast to all the radical religious organizations that wouldn't hesitate to call each other out for war? Is it because having NO belief is being discriminated against by a great deal of christians and other religious groups? Is it because they are being told that just because they don't share the same outlook on life, they deserve to burn for all eternity?

Religious people claiming anything negative about atheism is like the pot calling the kettle black.

Atheists can't proof there is no god yes. Can you proof to me that I don't have a magic pink unicorn in my closet? Agnostics are still either an atheist, or a theist (agnostic atheism and agnostic theism) so either way they can still be atheists. You can't know anything for certain, and that isn't what atheism claims. Atheism doesn't claim certainty. Like I wrote before, atheism only means one thing, and that is that this person doesn't believe that a god exists. Everything is separate.


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Mathew
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06/19/13 08:02 PM


Re: Atheism-Extremist Belief System or Not?
Post: #118431 / Re: Tawmeeleus #118428
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Why are people here lumping science with atheism & religion in the belief of a God or deity? There are scientists who have studies the web that is strewn throughout the universe & realise now that the universe was created by an intelligence of some kind but they didn't say what. There are also many scientists in the world who believe in a God so how can we lump atheism just with science???? You can't so why are atheists trying? They feel threatened but how could they feel threatened by something that doesn't supposedly exist? You shouldn't but you do, you should ask yourselves why because you are obviously threatened going by the replies here as that's psychologically obvious.

Don't get me wrong I believe science will prove or disprove everything one day so I'm not one sided but I just can't see why one would want to take on an obvious extremist ideology like atheism because it's obviously a belief & extreme within it's ideological concepts but of course it couldn't to an atheists, no extremist will see their own ideological concepts as being extreme as it's psychologically nearly impossible as shown here obviously.

Love
Mathew

Acceptance of all leads to true spiritual awareness.


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SexyAtheist
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06/19/13 08:04 PM


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Re: Atheism-Extremist Belief System or Not?
Post: #118432 / Re: Tawmeeleus #118428
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@Tawmeeleus

You can believe for yourself that you can make a pen float, but can you proof this to me or anybody else? If you can't, then the above still applies. If you claim that you have divine knowledge that we don't, then get this tested so you can make it into a theory.


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Ijinfuhen
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06/19/13 08:11 PM


Re: Atheism-Extremist Belief System or Not?
Post: #118433 / Re: Tawmeeleus #118428
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I would at this point reccommend you to watch videos and read about emergence.

This is a system wich does not require a designer.
However if we are talking about designers all designers and through that rule, would need a designer, so even if someone chooses to believe in god, would be worshipping the wrong entity here.

However i will give you a fundamental understanding.

You know about being social and about being a-social right?

Those who are social and those who are not.

Theism and a-theism.
Those who practice theism, and those who do not.

That is all it means and all it was ever intended to be.
However somehow i get the impression that non believers must be some kind of believers either to justify their own act of believing, or simply to have a competitor of sorts.

So i could either trace it back to self preservation and the other one being demonizing.

Something many people do actually, believer or not.
To me it simply feels like we are being pulled back to the lvl of believers or to the level of not needing proof, vs needing proof.
One is content not knowing anything, another is content knowing a whole lot.

So if it is comfort zones we are sensing oyt i`d advise you not to.
From start to finnish atheism has never been a religion or belief set.
You can read all about it, find out all about it by yourself.

There is another activity of wich i have forgotten the name of, but it simply comes down to accusing someone else of something you are going to do or have already done yourself.

So the dogmatic view you mentioned is something many atheists speak about when they confront for instance christianity.
As for belief and faith i`d advise you to pick up a dictionary and look it up, the defenitions come very close to another word: dellusion.

And don`t take these points as a knife aimed at you, i`m giving you an honest chance to go see for yourself.
And even though it is easy to discard any evidence or proof by saying you wouldn`t believe in it therefor it is not true, would be not only detrimental to yourself, but to others aswell.

The post i typed out before however was something i did from the top of my head so it isn`t as well versed as i had liked it to be since some misunderstanding apparently still took place.


Atheism for instance also isn`t about disproving god, it is about proving the effects of religion, proving that wich happens.

What they simply say is that especially because they cannot prove god, that they treat god as an uncertain factor not worth including their research in things that have nothing to do with it whatsoever.

So if someone is to say god cannot be proven, then so can no man, even if it is the pope himself, that there is one.
What we can prove however are the effects of religion within the human mind, since those are measurable effects having to do with psychology and the brains themself, and i must tell you the studies on those look very bad for any believer.

Even so the god question isn`t even relevant to an atheist, to an atheist god simply doesn`t exist because there is no measurable factor to prove or disprove his existence.

In the mean time because this point is evident religion takes it another step further and flat out gets in the way of science, it`s not the common believer who goes to atheist talks and presentations of science and go debate it, no they just sit at home commenting on it not even looking at it and in most cases if they do, it is for the purpose of solidifying the belief of their followers.
No matter how you slice it, god or no god let`s leave that in a grey area for now, you are impeding progress and while at it take along other people aswell and that is the unfairness and monstrocity that is religion.

So why don`t we all leave it in a grey area untill we know more?




i`m back


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SexyAtheist
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06/19/13 08:12 PM


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Re: Atheism-Extremist Belief System or Not?
Post: #118434 / Re: Mathew #118431
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quote:

Why are people here lumping science with atheism & religion in the belief of a God or deity?



Because atheism is the default position. Disbelief is the default position until sufficient evidence is supported to the contrary. This is how evidence works.

There are religious scientists around the world. However, the science that they participate in is not a result of their religion. It is the result of their LACK of religion.

The only thing I feel worried about, is that religious people think that just because they are in the majority they can monopolize the world we live in. I couldn't care less about your fictional god, because I don't believe one exists. I'm more concerned when it comes to human rights and the things we can actually observe, since this is again something that religious institutes have been trying to monopolize for centuries.

In fact, aren't you being a little extremist yourself here by attacking atheists? Seems a little ironic if you ask me.


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Ijinfuhen
Member
06/19/13 08:15 PM


Re: Atheism-Extremist Belief System or Not?
Post: #118435 / Re: SexyAtheist #118434
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I have to object here since religion does not hold the largest population.

Non believers are the biggest percentage.


ok that was a bit short so i`ll add as to make it a spam message.

But as said god and religion are not the same, however participating in a religions means you have some overwatch figure however you slice it, if you take wicca, there is nature, if you take satanism there is satan, if you take christianity there is god and jesus, if you take hinduism then there are myriad of gods and deities.

If you put enough people with different ideas to the point where they need to dominate in order to thrive then you will get ugly events, and well god or no god, or who`s ever god is meant, nobody even knows that for sure either, and wasn`t religion a choice?

Ok back in the day it was believe or die, now we are a little more sophisticated and make sure to make life miserable for others if not compliant to the religious rules or schools of thought.

It is divide and conquer.
Each religious leader gets a pedestal, they are much better off then any of their followers especially in lower classes of the population.

Do we really need this kind of you here, you there, fight?

This situation itself is proof of the bad things surrounding religion, some get angry at others because they simply do not agree with one another.

That is ludicris.
If evolution is so important then why do we still cling on the past like it is our salvation for the future while all situations and evidence, if seen by religious people or non religious people, proves beyond the shadow of a doubt that it is not.

I mean the whole universe is progress and about moving forward.

So why is it so hard to set aside the uncertainties of that wich we all know we simply cannot prove and focus on the things that we can prove?
i`m back

Edited by IJINFUHEN on 06/19/13 08:22 PM.




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SexyAtheist
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Re: Atheism-Extremist Belief System or Not?
Post: #118436 / Re: Ijinfuhen #118435
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According to Wikipedia: "The CIA's World Factbook gives the world population as 7,021,836,029 (July 2012 est.) and the distribution of religions as Christian 33.39% (of which Roman Catholic 18.85%, Protestant 8.15%, Orthodox 4.96%, Anglican 1.26%), Muslim 22.74%, Hindu 10.8%, Buddhist 6.77%, Sikh 0.35%, Jewish 0.22%, Baha'i 0.11%, other religions 10.95%, atheists 2.01%. (2010 est.)"

Edited by SexyAtheist on 06/19/13 08:22 PM.




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Ijinfuhen
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06/19/13 08:26 PM


Re: Atheism-Extremist Belief System or Not?
Post: #118437 / Re: SexyAtheist #118436
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Oh my bad for the wrong count.

Here then i`ll take me being wrong directly as an example then.

I was wrong about something, and since i don`t want to be wrong instead of going no man the cia is lying man, i simply get over it and amend my mistake.

That is all it takes and that simple step is something many many people cannot make, why?

Well a couple of reasons but then we would be delving into psychology more then what this topic is about.

But seriously is it so hard for people to do?

i`m back


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SexyAtheist
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06/19/13 08:28 PM


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Re: Atheism-Extremist Belief System or Not?
Post: #118438 / Re: Ijinfuhen #118437
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You're already more a scientist then most religious leaders!


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Mathew
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06/19/13 08:32 PM


Re: Atheism-Extremist Belief System or Not?
Post: #118439 / Re: SexyAtheist #118430
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Gíday SexyAtheist

Do you know how many times I have heard this, yes atheism means a disbelief that they have a belief that God canít ever exist but you still believe without proof God doesnít exist, believers might not have proof as such but disbelievers canít disprove God doesnít exist either so that would mean atheism is of extremism however agnosticism is different. If I proved without a doubt this world doesnít exist you would still believe it does, why?

I have spoken about this with a number of people who are & were atheists & not one of them said it wasnít a belief now at least they are honest with themselves. & when I explained the difference of atheism to agnosticism to atheists they realised then they werenít atheists after all but agnostic.

Your got a big bug bear with religion & believe it or not so have I to an extent but we are not talking about religion here just a belief in a God &/or deities, donít keep mixing religion with the belief in God all the time thatís a huge mistake. Religion has caused a lot of unnecessary strife in this world however so has science with all itís chemical, biological & nuclear mass destructive weapons plus look at how science has helped with the prolusion of the very thing we rely on for our survival, how blind & ignorant is that.

Atheism isnít agnosticism, donít keep getting these two mixed up as they are called two different things for a reason, one believes there canít be a God because itís not proven either way however atheism wonít or canít acknowledge any such thing as a God existing period because that would prove atheism was the illusion not the belief in God.

Donít get me wrong SexyAtheist Iím not religious but I do at this point believe in a creative consciousness of some kind so Iím sort of still agnostic sort of & now talking this over with various atheist friends of mine they proclaim themselves as agnostic now as they have a better understanding of what the difference is between atheism to agnosticism. In actual fact SexyAtheist I donít agree with any ism or belief because this is a sure sign you needed an sim to be complete which shouldnít be so but some people like yourself do which is fine because that I what you need but I donít.

Love
Mathew


Acceptance of all leads to true spiritual awareness.


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Mathew
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06/19/13 08:45 PM


Re: Atheism-Extremist Belief System or Not?
Post: #118440 / Re: SexyAtheist #118434
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A knowledge of the existence of something we cannot penetrate, of the manifestations of the profoundest reason and the most radiant beauty - it is this knowledge and this emotion that constitute the truly religious attitude; in this sense, and in this alone, I am a deeply religious man. (Albert Einstein)


The most beautiful and most profound experience is the sensation of the mystical. It is the sower of all true science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead. To know that what is impenetrable to us really exists, manifesting itself as the highest wisdom and the most radiant beauty which our dull faculties can comprehend only in their primitive forms - this knowledge, this feeling is at the center of true religiousness.
( Albert Einstein - The Merging of Spirit and Science)

Both extracts are from the following link:
http://www.spaceandmotion.com/albert-einstein-god-religion-theology.htm

Acceptance of all leads to true spiritual awareness.


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Ijinfuhen
Member
06/19/13 08:46 PM


Re: Atheism-Extremist Belief System or Not?
Post: #118441 / Re: Mathew #118439
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i think we are no longer in the atheism part and are just talking semantics here, belief is belief, non belief is non belief, thus you do not believ wich is the very definition of this statement.

First rule of science as tld by howard bloom: look at things as if you have never encountered them before and take it from there.

This should suffice in what i am trying to convey here.

So it never is a belief of any sort, kind, shape or form.
It is simply observing it for the first time even if encountered many times before, thus the possibility of a personal belief is not a factor in the end result.

This is to keep bias and biassing factors out of the fact determination.

If you mean the motivation why an atheist would be bent on crushing religion however, it still is not a belief, since it is not a matter of simply believing because there is a lack of proof for the reason why religion itself is bad.
They do it because of all the facts that prove religion is bad, so it is not their belief wich compells them to go against religion.
It are facts that compell them.

You might twist that into they believe religion is bad thus they go to extreme lengths to crush it, hence you`d describe their actions as extreme.

But it is simply fact reading, investigating and putting the knowledge that comes out of that into practice.

We all know deep down that religion is not right or righteous even, even so people would ignore it because their religion leaders or gospels tell them it is so, thus they do not present their own followers with fact, but keeping fact away because the religious leaders know that if their followers would be presented with the facts from start to finnish that they would no longer have any followers.

They even tell them, if anyone triesto show you facts that would go against the lord, excommunicate them, walk away, shield yourself off, close your mind and keep staring backward.

To me that sounds like an insult to my intelligence, i could never even consider doing such a thing.
because i like the proof.

Even if my life would become twice or even a multiple of that times easier, then i`d consider myself intelligently deceased.


i`m back


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SexyAtheist
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06/19/13 08:47 PM


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Re: Atheism-Extremist Belief System or Not?
Post: #118442 / Re: Mathew #118439
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@Mathew

Oh boy, Wikipedia is really helping me out on this topic:

"Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities.[1][2] In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities.[3][4][5] Most inclusively, atheism is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist.[4][5][6][7] Atheism is contrasted with theism,[8][9] which in its most general form is the belief that at least one deity exists."

Source: Wikipedia.

How you can say that atheism is both a disbelief and the belief that god can never exist is very strange to me. Where do you even get such a definition from?

If you have spoken with atheists who claim that atheism is more then just the rejection of belief in a god, then they were wrong. Very simple.

If you have a belief in a god, then you are a religious person. I can certainly understand that some people including yourself might feel that the word religion can leave a somewhat bad taste in someone's mouth, but that's just how we organize things. If you believe in a god, you're a theist (AKA a religious person), if you don't believe in any god, you're an atheist. Agnostics can swing either way.

Atheism IS agnosticism. The word agnosticism (in a broad sense) means 'uncertainty', and I already explained to you that nobody can ever be certain about anything. This includes atheists. And just for the record: atheism doesn't CLAIM to have absolute certainty about anything.

If you are truly interested in this topic, I can recommend looking up some video's on YouTube. Most popular atheists on YouTube are generally nice people and they will give you a better view of what atheists do in a positive light. Its really not as narrow minded as you think.

Edited by SexyAtheist on 06/19/13 08:48 PM.




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Ijinfuhen
Member
06/19/13 09:05 PM


Re: Atheism-Extremist Belief System or Not?
Post: #118444 / Re: SexyAtheist #118442
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Well i`ll do you a favor for refference then.

I watch a lot of atheist related stuff on youtube since i frankly do not have the money nor the time to go to each individual seminar, talk or exposition they have to offer.

The Amazing Atheist
Richard Dawkins
Howard Bloom
Christopher Hitchens
Stephen Fry(Steven Fry either of these two is right)
James Rhandi (JREF organisation hosting TED talks)

There are standalone videos and followup videos on several topics.

But just type in any of these names on youtube and you will find a whole load of videos to choose from.
All very informative and also intellectually challenging.

They will explain a lot of things a lot better then i have right now, so it is really worth it.

i`m back


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SexyAtheist
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06/19/13 09:12 PM


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Re: Atheism-Extremist Belief System or Not?
Post: #118445 / Re: Ijinfuhen #118444
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Yes, I can definitely recommend them.

James Rhandi is also great indeed. What I like most about him is the fact that he never puts down any theists or paranormal person on the spot, he just says "if you can do it, you can do it".

The Amazing Atheist is great too, but you have to like his "shotgun approach" of social commentary. His style might not be for everybody.

Furthermore I can also recommend searching for Michael Shermer and Lawrence Krauss.


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Ijinfuhen
Member
06/19/13 09:33 PM


Re: Atheism-Extremist Belief System or Not?
Post: #118449 / Re: SexyAtheist #118445
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I also started following the JREF organisation because of the hey i`m doing spiritual stuff and i want it proven so it becomes fact, not something wich is in the grey area.

Oh i have had dreams on winning that 1 million dollars alright
But even so i also got intimidated somewhat by it, more in the terms of if i am going to shoot for that million, i want to be 100% sure i`m paying my flight back from that 1 million

i`m back


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Mathew
Member
06/20/13 06:36 PM


Re: Atheism-Extremist Belief System or Not?
Post: #118483 / Re: Ijinfuhen #118441
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G'day Ijinfuhen

There's a lot of people who disagree with you in that atheism isn't a belief system of a kind & I'm talking about atheists & agnostics alike. Atheists have a belief in God or deities don't exist, atheists can't prove God don't exists so it is only a belief that God doesn't exist unless they can prove otherwise but they can't, they can only believe a God or deities don't exist!!

Religion is right it's the people behind religion that's not right like communism, it should work but it doesn't because of the people behind it. Your looking at this the wrong way, you blame the isms & beliefs but it's the people behind these beliefs & isms that's not right or righteous like with atheism because not all atheists are extremists.

Your also lumping atheism in with proof or logic but where is the proof God doesn't exist but an atheist will still adamantly believe there isn't a God of some sort, where's the logic in this?

Sorry Ijinfuhen but the belief in atheism is totally illogical obviously.

Love
Mathew



Acceptance of all leads to true spiritual awareness.


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Mathew
Member
06/20/13 07:05 PM


Re: Atheism-Extremist Belief System or Not?
Post: #118484 / Re: SexyAtheist #118442
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G'day SexyAtheist

Wikipedia has proven my point SexyAtheist that atheism has a belief that deities don't exist but where is your proof they don't exist so if you don't have proof it must be just a belief mustn't it???? It's quite logical as it's only a belief you have as you have no proof!!!

I will put it this way, if you don't have proof of anything what is it? It can only be a belief correct!!

You do indeed have a problem/conflict with religion & maybe you should look within not outwardly to solve this conflict of yours SexyAtheist as it won't do you any good at all. I myself have certain problems with religion but I don't blame religion itself but the people behind religion.


From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities.[1][2] In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities.[3][4][5] Most inclusively, atheism is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist.[4][5][6][7] Atheism is contrasted with theism,[8][9] which in its most general form is the belief that at least one deity exists.[9][10]

Agnosticism is the view that the existence or non-existence of any deity is unknown and possibly unknowable. More specifically, agnosticism is the view that the truth values of certain claimsóespecially claims about the existence or non-existence of any deity, as well as other religious and metaphysical claimsóare unknown and (so far as can be judged) unknowable.[1][2][3] Agnosticism can be defined in various ways, and is sometimes used to indicate doubt or a skeptical approach to questions. In some senses, agnosticism is a stance about the difference between belief and knowledge, rather than about any specific claim or belief. In the popular sense, an agnostic is someone who neither believes nor disbelieves in the existence of a deity or deities, whereas a theist and an atheist believe and disbelieve, respectively.[2] In the strict sense, however, agnosticism is the view that humanity does not currently possess the requisite knowledge and/or reason to provide sufficient rational grounds to justify the belief that deities either do or do not exist.

There is a huge difference SexyAtheist so don't try to make them out to be the same they are named something different for a very good reason.

Love
Mathew






Acceptance of all leads to true spiritual awareness.


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Mathew
Member
06/20/13 07:27 PM


Re: Atheism-Extremist Belief System or Not?
Post: #118485 / Re: Mathew #118484
Reply to this post Reply 
G'day All

I would also like to add if a scientist makes a claim he usually has proof so if atheism is supposed to be logical & of proof where is their proof of their claims? So logically all they have is a belief that deities can't exist not proof so it's obvious it's also of a belief system. This is the pot calling the kettle black which is slightly hypocritical isn't it???

Again if a scientist has to prove their claims where is the atheists proof of their claims?? If one hasn't got proof it must be a belief of such said claims nothing more!!

Love
Mathew

Acceptance of all leads to true spiritual awareness.

Edited by Mathew on 06/20/13 11:10 PM.




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Risingtide
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06/21/13 01:55 AM


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Re: Atheism-Extremist Belief System or Not?
Post: #118487 / Re: Mathew #118485
Reply to this post Reply 
The question should be "Do atheists have a belief system?". Clearly they do, one which does not include deities. However, this puts their belief system into a quite different category to the theists and religionists, so much so that they are not really comparable.



Amituofo
"Life knows its needs"



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SexyAtheist
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06/21/13 07:27 AM


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Re: Atheism-Extremist Belief System or Not?
Post: #118488 / Re: Mathew #118484
Reply to this post Reply 
You didn't read Wikipedia very well Matthew. Try reading it again. Atheism is the REJECTION of belief.

Baldness is NOT a hair colour. Not collecting stamps is NOT a hobby. Unemployment is NOT a job. Do I need to spell it out even more?

Its obvious that atheism is not a belief. As long as you keep trying to convince yourself that it is, you're just deluding yourself. This goes to Risingtide as well. We can't have a proper discussion if you're simply uneducated on this subject.

On the topic of agnosticism: clearly you didn't read further into the Wikipedia article, which means you're just quote-mining to support your argument (which you did earlier with your Albert Einstein quotes as well).

Allow me to demonstrate:

"
Types of agnosticism



Agnostic atheism

The view of those who do not believe in the existence of any deity, but do not claim to know if a deity does or does not exist.[16]
Agnostic theism
The view of those who do not claim to know of the existence of any deity, but still believe in such an existence.[16]
Apathetic or pragmatic agnosticism
The view that there is no proof of either the existence or nonexistence of any deity, but since any deity that may exist appears unconcerned for the universe or the welfare of its inhabitants, the question is largely academic.[17]
Strong agnosticism (also called "hard," "closed," "strict," or "permanent agnosticism")
The view that the question of the existence or nonexistence of a deity or deities, and the nature of ultimate reality is unknowable by reason of our natural inability to verify any experience with anything but another subjective experience. A strong agnostic would say, "I cannot know whether a deity exists or not, and neither can you."
Weak agnosticism (also called "soft," "open," "empirical," or "temporal agnosticism")
The view that the existence or nonexistence of any deities is currently unknown but is not necessarily unknowable; therefore, one will withhold judgment until evidence, if any, becomes available. A weak agnostic would say, "I don't know whether any deities exist or not, but maybe one day, if there is evidence, we can find something out."

Source: Wikipedia.

In short; agnosticism is more then what you make it out to be, and when you claim to be agnostic you can swing both ways.

quote:

The question should be "Do atheists have a belief system?". Clearly they do, one which does not include deities. However, this puts their belief system into a quite different category to the theists and religionists, so much so that they are not really comparable.



If this is the case, can you tell me the 'rules' of the atheist belief system? Or can you point me to an atheist bible, or church? There is no such things. Even when you can argue that a lot of atheists are secular humanists, this is all separate from atheism. Its not a part of their disbelief, nor does their disbelief imply anything else then disbelief that a god exists.

Edited by SexyAtheist on 06/21/13 07:33 AM.




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Tawmeeleus
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06/21/13 09:05 AM


Re: Atheism-Extremist Belief System or Not?
Post: #118492 / Re: SexyAtheist #118488
Reply to this post Reply 
I am not religious but I do believe in love.
I do not believe in a one god.
I think love covers my whole spectrum of belief.
Angels and guides are the way I understand the communication between this reality and the other reality.
If I imagine spirit as human form then it makes it easier to visualise.
I believe we are all energy and that we are not separate from that other reality but in a physical form it is harder to access than if we were just energy.
We in my opinion all have our beliefs or non beliefs it doesn't matter that they are different because we are all going to end up the same way and we all going to find out when we depart this world who was right and who was wrong.
Will it matter then as there will be no one to turn to and say ' I told you so'
I am curious to ask what do atheists expect to happen when they leave this world ?
If you believe in reincarnation then maybe in the next life roles could be reversed. we never really know unless we walk a mile in someone else's shoes.
take care
Tawmeeleus


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Ijinfuhen
Member
06/21/13 03:15 PM


Re: Atheism-Extremist Belief System or Not?
Post: #118500 / Re: Tawmeeleus #118492
Reply to this post Reply 
I think something you can say about belief and the requirements of belief is that makes people often go like what? you don`t have that? impossible howe else do you function?

In that sense forgetting to set their own perspective away from themself and their own experiences.
So you can say tensions often emerge out of a sense of wanting to save that fellow human being because you feel like they are not using human to what it is.
In their case often this sense of belief and reliance on belief.

In that regard i myself would simply reprogram myself using a similair belief function, but then stripped down to it`s bare minimum and simply it`s function, rather then how it would emotionally support me or something the like.

So i think it would be a good idea to first examine the statement, then setting yourself aside, thus making an objective observation and analysis.
From that point on something like belief, or love, or will, becomes not less important, but their concepts seem silly or not very well explained.
Doesn`t mean these factors don`t do things ofcourse.

Belief even when looking up the definition sounds ok as an explanation, but content wise it feels just shallow, or like i said earlier that it becomes more of a stripped down function wich you happen to only use in 1 specific way.

In that sense belief could be used in different manners, like self programming to for instance cut off bad habbits, or to more easily become able to learn better or soak up information better.

So it is not like people who don`t believe in religions or gods and demons and ghosts and what not, do not make use of the concept of convincing the mind.
And that they use it differently.

So it is also then with atheism that it`s that lack of belief in the specific manner wich a religion has because there is no evidence for it nor a way to test it.
And perhaps that is how belief turns into something else, but actually usefull.

That`s some food for thought.

i`m back


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SexyAtheist
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06/21/13 06:26 PM


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Re: Atheism-Extremist Belief System or Not?
Post: #118505 / Re: Tawmeeleus #118492
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quote:

I am curious to ask what do atheists expect to happen when they leave this world ?



What expectation do you have then after you die? If you think that there's some form of a better life after you die, then why not kill yourself now? I'm serious about this, because this whole afterlife thing is a very immoral idea when you consider that you basically live your life by the promise of an eternal afterlife instead of living your life here and now.

Reincarnation is a Buddhist principle. While I don't hold any belief in that, I do believe that among all religions Buddhism is the most reasonable and if I weren't an atheist I would probably go for Buddhism mostly because Buddhism doesn't preach hate like so many large groups of Christian and Islamic organizations do.


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Tawmeeleus
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06/21/13 06:57 PM


Re: Atheism-Extremist Belief System or Not?
Post: #118506 / Re: SexyAtheist #118505
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Thank you for answering.

I didn't mean in the sense of a promise of an eternal life.

I think in terms of no time which is another word for infinity. That is different to an eternal life of bliss and joy, heaven if you want to call it that.

I have a theory that this human life is to evolve love not ego. (human)
I believe that when we can get command of ego( human) (and by that I mean as ego feel unconditional love)

Then we progress to another reality where maybe there is a something greater than the human ego!( human) that love can conquer.

I just think it is all about love.

we are here as humans to learn about love. How evolved we are is how our life teaches us.

My theory is based on the fact that you cannot separate love.
If you cannot separate love then having the illusion of separation as ego( human) is why human beings exist.!

It is just a theory but then as I said myself theory is just 'gazing at'

I agree about the Buddhist principle.
although I do not believe in karma.
I like to think if I forgive someone that it is the end of the matter. I would not like for someone to suffer karmic consequences for something they did to me.

take care
Tawmeeleus

Edited by Tawmeeleus on 06/21/13 07:04 PM.




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Mathew
Member
06/22/13 00:14 AM


Re: Atheism-Extremist Belief System or Not?
Post: #118508 / Re: SexyAtheist #118488
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G'day SexyAtheist

Atheism is contradictory as well, it has a belief that god doesn't exist but it's not of a belief & no I didn't read it wrong as I read it as a whole your only reading what you want to read.

Atheism is obviously a belief because if you havenít got proof of your claims it can only be a belief; atheism in the disbelief in God hasnít got proof of their claims so it canít be fact can it so itís only of a belief obviously.

Did you bother looking at the interpretation of agnosticism I posted, it clearly says quote: an agnostic is someone who neither believes nor disbelieves in the existence of a deity or deities, whereas a theist and an atheist believe and disbelieve, respectively.

It is funny you are accusing me of what you are doing, you read into something what you can get out of it instead of reading it as a whole to support your argument also you didnít give us all of what atheism was all about either. Remember youíre the one who said atheism is agnosticism but there not are they obviously so who is trying to trick who here??

I will play your game SexyAtheist.

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Belief is the psychological state in which an individual holds a proposition or premise to be true.[1] Dispositional and occurrent belief concerns the contextual activation of the belief into thoughts (reactive of propositions) or ideas (based on the belief's premise).

Your trying to make out having a belief is of rules, religion or of some religious practice but it clearly isnít as stated above but of course you probably already knew this, it is obviously just of a psychological state in anything one wants to believes in which obviously includes atheism as itís just another ism. To title yourself as an ism is of a belief as ism refers to a belief I believe.

You really should be asking yourself why you are being so offensive & defensive against something you donít believe exists. If you truly believe God doesnít exist why so offensive & defensive??? Donít you think itís strange defending your beliefs against something youíre supposed to believe doesnít exist? There is something wrong here as it doesnít make sense!!!

Love
Mathew


Acceptance of all leads to true spiritual awareness.


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Mathew
Member
06/22/13 07:32 PM


Re: Atheism-Extremist Belief System or Not?
Post: #118513 / Re: Mathew #118508
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G'day SexyAtheist

Reading all of what has been written here it is obvious you have accused me of being deceptive, who was the one who didnít cut & past everything about atheism & who was it who cut & past a lot more about agnosticism. Be careful about throwing stones while living in a glass house SexyAtheist as you are actually inadvertently accusing yourself of deception as well.

My father was a foreman within a section of the company he worked for, he was trained to psychologically manipulate his workers under him not just to get the most out of them but minimize disputes however when I was in charges of my section within a welfare organisation I worked for I was trained to help my clients & anyone working under me, I used the same helpful psychological concepts which had nothing to do with manipulation but understanding & working with that understanding. Many people use the manipulative concepts of psychology in & outside of work, I should know my father did this plus itís quite obvious when you know the signs but I donít use psychology in this way because my training in psychology was quite different to the concepts of manipulative psychology.

Love
Mathew


Acceptance of all leads to true spiritual awareness.


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