Tantra Thread views: 6973
Nightowl
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06/15/08 02:35 PM


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prostitution or massage?
Post: #108706
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I have seen some adverts for "tantra massage" or "tantric massage", in a section of a newpaper where callgirls can be found, so that makes me think that tantra massage is a form of prostitution. I find that confusing as I thought tantra was about combining sexuality with spirituality, but when I see such adverts it makes me doubtful. What do you think?


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Gerrit SpiritBoard Supporter
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Re: prostitution or massage?
Post: #108709 / Re: Nightowl #108706
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There is a clear difference between tantra massage and prostitution. Prostitutes offer the use of their body, so that the customer can actively be involved in sexual activity. However a tantra massage is not about sexual activity, and the customer remains passive, and the practitioner does not use his genitals to stimulate the customer (there is no intercourse nor anything similar). Quite the contrary, in a true tantra massage the customer receives a full body massage, which does include the genitals, but stimulation is not the primary goal as the very nature of the message is sensual and not geared at reaching an orgasm. While an orgasm may occur, it is not the goal - the goal is to awaken the energies of the sacral chakra and distribute these energies throughout the entire system of the client with the purpose of healing and energizing the client's energy field. Quite a different approach, different method, and different goal from prostitution. However, there are some prostitutes that give "massages" which do fall into the category of prostitution and probably end with intercourse, and they falsely call those "tantric" although it has nothing to do with tantra massage. This is regrettable as it gives tantra a bad name, but in the view of many, tantra has to do mostly with sexuality so some imbeciles give a sexual massage the name "tantra", just to give it an exotic name - although it has very little to do with tantra or a tantric massage.


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Marte95999
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Re: prostitution or massage?
Post: #116976 / Re: Nightowl #108706
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Hi,
Sorry to contradict you, but the tantric massage, or blue, red following definitions is downright sexual. FYI, definition of sex: all acts ranging from preliminary associated with the excitation, intercourse itself, orgasm and masturbation if it is not practiced only (e).

It seems to me that some training on Tantra will offer absolutely no this kind of massage (see text sources, two paragraphs on different volumes) and some are focusing on.

Yoga is practiced almost unanimously dressed and without sexual acts.
With meditation, are you sure you do not sated your sexual perversion using so-called spirituality and ideas that have been very few courses but you would bring it up to date?

It is certain that this is prostitution, unless you deny the definitions.

Love and greetings.



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Gerrit SpiritBoard Supporter
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Re: prostitution or massage?
Post: #116978 / Re: Marte95999 #116976
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According to Wikipedia:
quote:

Prostitution is the business or practice of providing sexual services to another person in return for payment. The person who receives payment for sexual services is called a prostitute and the person who receives such services is known by a multitude of terms, including "john". Prostitution is one of the branches of the sex industry. ...


By that definition, I maintain my view that a tantra massage is not prostitution as there are no sexual services provided. The goal of the tantra massage is to work with the energy flow of the body, awakening the sexual energy, but this is not by any means equivalent of a woman selling her body to a man, by far. However I do know that there are some prostitutes that use the term "tantra" to give their entirely sexual service ("massage with happy end") an exotic touch. This gives tantra a bad name and shows lack of understanding of what tantra truly is.


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Bobby24
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12/12/12 05:02 AM


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Re: prostitution or massage?
Post: #116983 / Re: Gerrit #116978
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massage !


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Marte95999
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Re: prostitution or massage?
Post: #117012 / Re: Bobby24 #116983
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The description given above is also that on wikipedia that are sexual acts. This is not limited to only penetration or fellation. Moreover there are penetrations in these massage, yoni or anus to reach the point P. Massaging the lingam or yoni is so pronounced that in time, this is perhaps the most parts massaged after two or three appointments . Even if there is no ejucalation (descriptions of group sessions sometimes describing the contrary), it is still very limited.
In short, unless we deny the definitions of sexual acts, here wrapped in a massage, and when there is compensation, it is prostitution.
Unless if you want to deny the definition of sexual acts.



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Risingtide
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12/16/12 11:31 PM


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Re: prostitution or massage?
Post: #117013 / Re: Marte95999 #117012
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IMO, tantra is mainly an attitude, a world orientation which, amongst other things, also expresses itself in the sexual act. If the tantric attitude is not present it is not tantra, no matter how, where and when the massage happens, and irrespective of the outcome.

It is highly unlikely that someone who advertises in the 'massage' section of a newspaper would have much of an idea about this required attitude, let alone have it adopted for their life in general.

It is a catchy word which gives the impression that the massage will be more than what it will be. It is a marketing or promotional gimmick. We know what the woman does, we know what the client expects. I have no judgment about that but tantra is probably far from the mind of both people.


Amituofo
"Life knows its needs"



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Gerrit SpiritBoard Supporter
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12/17/12 11:03 AM


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Re: prostitution or massage?
Post: #117017 / Re: Marte95999 #117012
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Where do you draw the line of what is a sexual act? If someone receive a muscular massage - entirely therapeutic - and gets aroused from that, does it make it sexual? Is the therapist a prostitute? Surely not, because it is not the intent of the therapist to engage in sexual activity.
What a tantra massage is concerned, it gets a bit more complicated because tantra does not reject sexuality, to the contrary, it uses sexual energy. However, a tantra massage - if it is a real one, not a prostitute giving her services a fancy name - has two major differences to prostitution:
1) the receiver remains passive, i.e. does not interact with the giver
2) the giver does not provide a sexual service, it is a holistic approach which includes all parts of the body but not primarily the genitalia
If these two points are not observed in the massage, it is not a real tantra massage. Additionally, there is no contact of the genitalia, i.e. the lingam is not inserted in the yoni, nor is the yoni rubbed against the lingam.

In reply to:

Massaging the lingam or yoni is so pronounced that in time, this is perhaps the most parts massaged after two or three appointments



To me, this does not sound like a very serious tantra massage and indeed could be seen as entering in prostitution. You cannot give a real tantra massage without touching everything, and stimulating lingam/yoni, but if the massage is essentially all about lingam/yoni, to me this is not a true tantra massage which by nature must be holistic, i.e. include the whole body, to distribute the energy created throughout the entire system, and thereby elevating the energy.

I understand your definition, yet there seems to be no room for a tantra massage in between the definition of sexual act and prostitution, as those definitions seem to include tantra massage but yet this is something completely different, when done right. Not just the attitude of the therapist is different, so should be the one of the client. I know this problem from a couple of friends who offer professional tantra massage, and this misunderstanding is a major problem as there are frequent calls from people who seek a prostitute but got the wrong number for that, and my friends have to explain what really happens in the massage and quite often those people then decide to go elsewhere. It's just a shame that those definitions are a bit limited in their view and do not allow for an alternate path.


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Balance888
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11/15/14 07:16 PM


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Re: prostitution or massage?
Post: #122699 / Re: Gerrit #117017
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I once watched a documentary on different forms of social living, with spirituality evolved. The reporter chose to live within each community she investigated. One of those communities had a ritual where they would strip down, get naked and oil themselves up and go into a completely darkened room and basically around thirty people would touch and rub each other in one almost fluid movement. No sex involved just a movement and flow of body to body. It, for that community created a bonding.

Love is the key


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Gerrit SpiritBoard Supporter
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Re: prostitution or massage?
Post: #122711 / Re: Balance888 #122699
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Interesting. I have witnessed a bit similar exercises in tantra workshops, where all participants got naked and blindfolded, then got on all four and mingled, no sex either, just exploring with the sense of touch. It is amazing how such simple exercise can open up a group.


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Goldenserenity
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11/16/14 09:50 AM


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Re: prostitution or massage?
Post: #122718 / Re: Gerrit #122711
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In reply to:

all participants got naked and blindfolded, then got on all four and mingled



Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, not something I could get into.


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Balance888
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11/16/14 05:54 PM


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Re: prostitution or massage?
Post: #122724 / Re: Goldenserenity #122718
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Goldenserenity, I thought the same, when I was watching the documentary. But I have to say it was beautiful, and after watching it I did think I could do it. After all, its about breaking down conditioned thought. I'm going to see if I can find that documentary, and link it here. Let the search being

Love is the key


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Goldenserenity
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Re: prostitution or massage?
Post: #122733 / Re: Balance888 #122724
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Thanks Balance888, I think that's one condition I choose to keep. I also don't like to be touched, so that could be why I find that repulsive.


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Gerrit SpiritBoard Supporter
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Re: prostitution or massage?
Post: #122743 / Re: Goldenserenity #122733
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One of the main goals of Tantra is to break old rules. We are governed by so many rules that our parents and forefathers passed on to us, some of which make little sense. In Tantra we question all rules. We have been brought up thinking that touching another human being is weird, if not even disgusting. And I am not talking in a sexual sense - but even more, what that is concerned. More than a handshake is not common in much of the "civilized" world. Yet a hug can give so much more! Have you heard of Amma, the lady from India who got famous for giving hugs to everyone? A hug is love, a hug is healing, compassion, peace. We should all hug more! But our upbringing is against that, against touching or many other expressions of compassion and love. Now that we have entered the new era, I believe it is time to grow out of those restrictions.


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Cheeneka
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11/17/14 06:00 PM


Re: prostitution or massage?
Post: #122748 / Re: Gerrit #122743
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HI

In my opinion.

Tantra is a spiritual embrace. It is different from a physical embrace. It is touching in spiritual energy rather than physical energy. In a physical body when two spirits merge it is orgasm overdrive because human beings are not used to having touch in the spiritual realms. It has nothing to do with sex, it has to do with love.

Feeling Chakras activate is touching in spirit, Anyone who has ever activated a chakra knows what that means!

LOve cheeneka x



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Gerrit SpiritBoard Supporter
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Re: prostitution or massage?
Post: #122767 / Re: Cheeneka #122748
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Tantra includes everything. It does not stop at physical embrace, but the goal is, as you said, the spiritual connection, that is of course what really matters. But Tantra does not exclude. Which is why it does not exclude a sexual expression of the connection between two people, but it is by far not "just" about sex or physical connection, to the contrary, that is just a tiny aspect that needs to be seen as part of the whole concept. You cannot bake bread with just salt, or just water. You need all the ingredients. But without salt, bread has a very off taste. In "White" Tantra sex is the salt. In "Red" Tantra, sex is the water. But in either case, flour and a rising agent is needed - flour is the spiritual concepts, rising agent uhm maybe faith?


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